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As the battle to save Bay Ridge’s Green Church from being razed and reborn as condos winds down, the Observer finds the neighborhood is becoming a haven for such “McCondos.” Despite a three-year-old rezoning preventing “‘out-of-character development’ in the low-rise neighborhood,” they write, “tensions between nostalgic residents and developers who continue to squeeze three- and four-story apartment buildings into plots once occupied by single-family homes show no signs of abating.” Residents fear the area will become another “mini Manhattan,” or transform at the pace and scale of downtown Brooklyn. Perhaps as offensive to some as the onslaught of “Feders” buildings are the demolition of century-old limestone townhouses and single-family Victorian homes, the old preservation-versus-progress paradigm, that inevitably recalls nostalgia for an earlier time and extends beyond an attempt to rescue buildings. As one resident said, “We were just telling my brother’s kids about how all the kids in the neighborhood used to play stickball in the street when we were young. Now all the kids are inside playing those electronic games. The whole neighborhood thing is really changing.”
McCondos in Bay Ridge [NY Observer]
Bay Ridge Row Houses. Photo by bondidwhat.


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  1. East New York:

    1. 4,000 people is nothing. 4,000 people die every day in this country for no reason at all. 312 people died during one battle in Brooklyn during the Revolutionary War when the whole country had a population half that of New York City today.

    2. See any modern urban war of the past century.

  2. Lurker,

    It seems then that you support the notion of property rights and the free market system, and would applaud any of your elderly comrades who choose to sell their homes so that they can be redeveloped with higher density housing. Why do we argue?

    “You have no idea what you’re talking about and your last post proves that you’re desperately trying to backpedal on comments here and those you’ve made previously. For someone who claims to believe in the importance of intergenerational dependence, you’ve made more than one agrument against that, both subtly and not so subtly.”

    I have far more important things in my life to deal with than you. You ascribe far too much importance to this minor distraction.

    “What you are describing is not the majority of elderly Americans but it would also serve you better to remember that without the contributions of previous generations- in both war and peace- you wouldn’t exist.”

    What a joke. What precisely has your generation contributed? A decaying subway system? Failing to maintain century old buildings? How about huge social security obligations? The incredible cost of health care? What about those great housing projects scattered around the city?

    I’m sorry, but when I look at the world – I see a civilization in decline during which time the Greatest Generation and the Baby Boomers have been at the helm now for a half century.

    Past generations have given me nothing but high taxes and inferior public services. At least I can afford a 110-year old slum. Thanks.

    “Sorry pal- being young doesn’t entitle any of us to anything other than the possibility of growing old. All you are is an elderly person with a little less mileage and a lot less experience.”

    1) Being old doesn’t entitle you to a neighborhood that never changes. It also doesn’t entitle you to a huge portion of my income, which you yourself never had to pay.

    2) Despite your “experience” you obviously fail to recognize the terrible, disastrous errors perpetuated by your generation – of which zoning laws are just one part.

  3. “I am not suggesting the elderly in general have no value in society, but there must be mutual benefit. ”

    How about defining mutual benefit as the benefit of their experience, their previous service to the country, the raising of selfish brats like yourself, paying their dues and contributing to the base of knowledge, wealth, art, architecture, etc. that you use and enjoy today?

    You’re living off of that mutual benefit- they paid their dues and most of them are still paying. You believe public policy should be determined by your bias- otherwise why make a point of telling older bay ridge residents they should move en masse to Florida? Why say things like “The elderly resist change?” Are you now going to claim to be an expert in the science of aging? You have such a flattened outlook and shallow understanding of society and people that you can’t even figure out what you’re saying.

  4. “God help you if the day comes when Americans face a protracted war. Why on earth would the youth of American defend someone like you?”

    Iraq War – In its 5th year, 4,093 U.S. soldiers killed, 30,182 wounded.

    It’s already happening, man. And since when do “the youth of American [sic]” selectively defend segments of the populace?

  5. bayridgegirl:

    “Oh, my god, I say a couple of hipsters walking around last weekend. You have no idea what you’re talking about.”

    While I appreciate your anecdotal evidence, it doesn’t help us much. Bay Ridge has a higher proportion of the population being over 65 in comparison with the nation as a whole. Conversely, the percentage of the population under 18 is lower than the nation as a whole.

    “Over development is not the answer to affordability.”

    You obviously know nothing of economics. Supply and demand. Read up on it.

    bxgrl:

    I am not suggesting the elderly in general have no value in society, but there must be mutual benefit. In this case, you are misconstruing a discussion of public policy with a specific bias. The elderly, by their nature, resist change. This is a very fundamental issue in society. The restraint they impart is hugely beneficial as younger generations will often be brash.

  6. Ah, poley, poley, poley. “I’m amused at your reference of wisdom, as the great philosophers and statesman of history universally accept the importance of the interdependence of generations.” Yes- and I argued for it, not against it- that was you, my friend. And I wouldn’t be so quick to assume you know anything about my age or my military service.

    “There will come a time in the not so distant future where elders such as you will need the strength and virility of those younger generations. You already require them in the present, although the peace and prosperity you have enjoyed for the past 60 years may obscure this fact through a vast abstraction of wealth redistribution, the ponzi scheme of “investments” and debt enslavement.”

    What you are describing is not the majority of elderly Americans but it would also serve you better to remember that without the contributions of previous generations- in both war and peace- you wouldn’t exist. Or do you think (and you most obviously do) that the elderly simply appeared full blown from the head of Zeus, taking prime real estate to keep out the young, and having lived the life of Riley now simply want to suck the blood of the “young and virile.”

    You have no idea what you’re talking about and your last post proves that you’re desperately trying to backpedal on comments here and those you’ve made previously. For someone who claims to believe in the importance of intergenerational dependence, you’ve made more than one agrument against that, both subtly and not so subtly.

    Sorry pal- being young doesn’t entitle any of us to anything other than the possibility of growing old. All you are is an elderly person with a little less mileage and a lot less experience.

  7. Lurker

    I’m amused at your reference of wisdom, as the great philosophers and statesman of history universally accept the importance of the interdependence of generations.

    There will come a time in the not so distant future where elders such as you will need the strength and virility of those younger generations. You already require them in the present, although the peace and prosperity you have enjoyed for the past 60 years may obscure this fact through a vast abstraction of wealth redistribution, the ponzi scheme of “investments” and debt enslavement.

    I’m also greatly amused you would bring up military service. You clearly haven’t served in the military yourself, otherwise you not have mentioned such a thing. God help you if the day comes when Americans face a protracted war. Why on earth would the youth of American defend someone like you?

    People choose to die in war because they believe their civilization is worth preserving, and that their children and family should have the opportunity to thrive into the future.

    As a final aside, I don’t advocate the forcible removal of anyone. I believe in the free market and property rights. Unfortunately, it seems that it is you who wish to tell people what to do – not me. It seems you have fallen victim to what psychologists call “projection”.

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