Open House Picks
Clinton Hill 282 Dekalb Avenue Archive! Warren Lewis Sunday 12-4 $1,850,000 GMAP P*Shark Park Slope 407 8th Street Brown Harris Stevens Sunday 12-2 $1,425,000 GMAP P*Shark Bedford Stuyvesant 585 MacDonough Street Kirkland Homes Sunday 12-3 $750,000 GMAP P*Shark Bushwick 51 Linden Street Douglas Elliman Sunday 2-4 $675,000 GMAP P*Shark
Clinton Hill
282 Dekalb Avenue Archive!
Warren Lewis
Sunday 12-4
$1,850,000
GMAP P*Shark
Park Slope
407 8th Street
Brown Harris Stevens
Sunday 12-2
$1,425,000
GMAP P*Shark
Bedford Stuyvesant
585 MacDonough Street
Kirkland Homes
Sunday 12-3
$750,000
GMAP P*Shark
Bushwick
51 Linden Street
Douglas Elliman
Sunday 2-4
$675,000
GMAP P*Shark
It will be possible, Montrose…when people like Tinarina stop saying that Bushwick is just as safe as every other place in Brooklyn.
Montrose, it’s not possible to analyze whether or not a property is a good buy without talking about the safety of the neighborhood, because as you yourself say, a neighborhood’s crime rate necessarily has an effect on the value of that property.
You say that you’re tired of people bringing up the fact that there’s crime in Bed-Stuy and Crown Heights, implying that posters are talking about this too much. But what we’re tired of is the relentless insistence by you and others that these neighborhoods are safe enough that it’s reasonable to pay $800K-$1 million to live in them. They’re not. The gap in crime rates between Bed-Stuy and Carroll Gardens or the Slope is massive, as is the gap in services, quality of life, etc. Bed-Stuy is, in terms of safety, where the Slope was 15 years ago. But 15 years ago you could buy a brownstone in the Slope, inflation-adjusted, for much less than you can buy a brownstone in Bed-Stuy now. To put it in Tina’s terms, the “pioneer discount” is nowhere near big enough. These neighborhoods have benefited from the run-up in prices in Brooklyn’s more expensive neighborhoods, even though the vast majority of the people who are buying properties in those neighborhoods would never think of moving to BS or Bushwick. So it is, in that sense, a somewhat deceptive inflation, fueled in large part by cheap credit and fantasies about the continued rise of property values.
The fundamental point is that property prices in BS, Bushwick and Crown Heights are out of whack. Given what you get from living there, and what you have to deal with on a daily level (including most obviously the threat of crime), it costs way too much to live there. You can keep telling us how the salt of the earth live there — and I’m sure they do. But it doesn’t change the fact that today it makes no economic sense to buy in these neighborhoods.
last i checked, park slope, brooklyn heights and ft. greene were indeed more expensive than many of it’s manhattan counterparts, and people still seem to choose brooklyn.
if you have me 10 million bucks tomorrow, i’d stay in park slope for eternity.
6:57 PM – no one would live in any of those neighborhoods if they were priced the same as the West Village, Chelsea, Tribeca, and Central Park West.
The real issue I have is not that someone doesn’t want to live here because they don’t feel “safe”, or because they don’t like being minorities in the communities they live in. Fine. Don’t move here. Don’t make no nevermind to me.
My issue is with those who have to constantly remind all of us every damn day, every thread that has to do with Bed Stuy, Crown Heights, etc, that there is crime here. No shit, Sherlock. I think that everyone knows that by now. In spite of that, thousands of people live in these communities happily, safely and proudly. More people are coming in every day, in spite of dire warnings to the contrary, and contrary to 8:40’s wit, they are not out of their minds.
So, would it be possible for one thread to feature a house in one of these communities, and discuss it on the merits of its architecture, beauty, size, price or closeness to the subway, without the predictions of some kind of cloud of crime and lawlessness that is sure to descend on the unwitting? It really gets tiresome. I’m not saying that a negative, like an elevated crime rate is not a legitimate topic for discussion when looking at a property. It is, but it it not the only topic.
tinarina: “My earlier comment about crime was about serious incidents, like assault and rape. Yes, muggings and car break-ins are undoubtedly higher in Bushwick and Bed-Stuy and other similar (largely low-income) neighborhoods. But that doesn’t make them bad places to live….”
For you. Which is fine. For other people, having an objectively higher chance of being mugged does make a neighborhood a bad place to live. Which is also fine.
People have a right to make these decisions without beeing called crazy (on the one hand) or racist (on the other). But to make these decisions, they need objective information, like the plain fact that these crimes have a higher incidence in these neighborhoods.
Which is why it’s ridiculous that people get jumped on here for pointing out those facts. If you feel living in Bushwick is worth a somewhat higher risk of getting mugged, that’s fine. But no one is obligated to pretend that higher risk doesn’t exist, or to pretend that–because “muggings happen in every neighborhood”–that muggings are equally likely in any neighborhood.
Montrose, 90% black isn’t diverse. Neither is 90% white, or 90% asian, or 90% hispanic. It’s the opposite of diverse. Personally, I don’t want to live in a neighborhood where I’m in the 10% minority, whatever I may be. I don’t think that’s racist. I also don’t want to live in a neighborhood that’s 90% college-students, or 90% investment bankers, or 90% bohemian.
“some people WANT to live in these communities, and are not here just because they are priced out of “better” neighborhoods.”
10% or less. It’s a rare breed that pays significantly less than they can afford (with room to save and enjoy a lifestyle) to live in a certain nabe. Heath Ledger in Boreum Hill and a handful of bankers in Fort Greene are rare examples.
“No one in their right mind is going to risk their family’s safety”.
Bingo. They’re out of their minds.
Gee, 6:53, if wanting to live in a neighborhood where 90% of the people look like you, and you look forward to your kids playing with other children who look just like them isn’t even slightly racist, then what is?
I’m sure many (white) homeowners in Bed Stuy and elsewhere, who love their neighborhood and the people in it, would be surprised to learn that they are in a place that is not “a nice neighborhood”.
So what constitutes a nice neighborhood? Is it the absence of minority faces? A totally upscale place lacking those unpleasant social problems that other neighborhoods have? A place teeming with social life that you find desireable and acceptable? Neighbors who don’t speak, or interact with you in any way?
Everyone wants safety, good schools, good services, shops and social spots. Those things are even desired in the hood. But to intimate that the lack of any of those, in addition to having to have the novel experience of being a minority in your own community, makes living in Bed Stuy, Crown Heights or Bushwick some kind of substandard settling, certainly flies in the face of all of those people, black, white and otherwise, who are happy to call these communities home.
You are right, this is America, and we can do whatever we choose. Your choices may be good for you, but don’t denigrate the choices others make. I personally applaud those who want their children to grow up comfortable in their skins, and not afraid or judgemental of their playmates whose skins may be different. Those kids are the future.
So lets get real, 6:57, and realize that some people WANT to live in these communities, and are not here just because they are priced out of “better” neighborhoods. No one in their right mind is going to risk their family’s safety living anywhere where they are afraid to leave their homes. Not even for a chance to buy a brownstone.