House of the Day: 348 Clermont Avenue Shell
It’s rare to find a total shell of a brownstone in Fort Greene these days, but Townsley & Gay has a quintessential one on Clermont Avenue listed for $975,000 (cash only). Set Speed says the building is in such bad shape that the price “might as well be considered the cost of the land.” While…
It’s rare to find a total shell of a brownstone in Fort Greene these days, but Townsley & Gay has a quintessential one on Clermont Avenue listed for $975,000 (cash only). Set Speed says the building is in such bad shape that the price “might as well be considered the cost of the land.” While the interior photos (which T&G deserves credit for being so forthcoming with) reveal that there’s really nothing left to save on the inside, we hope that the LPC won’t let the facade be torn down. (The building is safely within the FG Historic District.) The listing mentions that the house is a former SRO, but doesn’t mention whether the Certificate of No Harrassment has been gotten already. Given all this, what do you think about the price?
Listing #97 [Townsley & Gay] GMAP P*Shark
Clermont Ave shell on market for $975K [Set Speed]
It’s also easier to make an accurate bid with fewer contingencies for “surprises.”
In this case, the surprise might be the collapse of the building.
Totally agree with the last post. This is a gut and rebuild of the roof, floors (including joists most likely, stairs and walls), along with all new electric, plumbing and other mechanicals, while preserving and repairing, where necessary, the stone and brick walls. It is more straight forward than a rehab/restoration job in a run down, but habitable, brownstone. Apples and oranges, but in some sense, easier from a project timeline and ease of planning/work point of view.
Jack may be closer to the truth with his numbers than most posters here think…
What many might not realize is that when you do a complete gut renovation, it makes all of the tradesmen’s jobs go much much faster and easier, and, thus, cheaper! Why? because new work is easier than “retrofit” type work. It’s also easier to make an accurate bid with fewer contingencies for “surprises.”
You cannot compare your experience of remodeling your kitchen and/or having your house rewired or having your new toilet waste line installed to what thoses tasks would cost in this case.
the trades make a profit based on speed. They like gut renovations – it is understandably easier for them if there are no “hidden” obstructions when they arrive to do their work and can get the work done quickly. Just ask an electrician how much easier it is to install a new circuit when the walls are completely opened up – takes about 20% of the time it might take to run the same circuit through a simple plaster wall; (and then the plaster wall needs to be repaired and repainted, too. even more time spent.)
time is money, baby…this is why remodeling is usually more expensive than bidding for all “new work.”
also, the sequence of construction events can be better controlled this way, maximizing efficiency.
the secret is to make sure that the foundation, masonry work and brickwork are structurally sound; if they’re not, it could be expensive to repair. (although, 2:08, some missing bricks don’t necessarily portend disaster) the brownstone cladding out front will be expensive to fix, and landmarks will make it a requirement to get it right, (one would hope.) the condition of the roof, stairs, beams, joists and studs don’t really mean a thing. they will all be replaced and all the new floors and walls will be level and plumb.
level, plumb and exposed = easier, faster and cheaper.
anyway…
no one on this thread can look at photos and give accurate numbers to waht this would cost without knowledge and the personal inspections of several different experts – thinking otherwise is a ludicrous, ignorant notion.
this is not a restoration-type gig for those who learn things from “this old house” and bob vila, but it’s also not really daunting to those who know what they’re doing and have done it many times.
I have seen the inside of this house with my own eyes. It’s in the worst shape a house can be in. The agent would not even allow us to walk around inside (not that we wanted to). We took a few steps in to see rotten joists throughout the house or joists that have been removed completely, a crumbling facade, a whole in the roof that has been leaking for years, brick walls exposed and huge portions of the brick missing from the wall. The staircase falling off the wall and 1/4 of the floor board missing (the rest may have fallen into the basement). This house is in the worst shape a house can be in.
I am anons 4:12 and 5:15. Apart from a bit of invective, I appreciate that a bunch of you have dug a bit deeper into the numbers to provide some perspective. I’m not going to referee this, but I feel I have learned something (even if Jack is still guarding his trade secrets). I know what I went through with an old house reno/restoration job for me and my family to live in, and was curious how one approaches a renovation without pity. So thank you all (and keep the thread going, if you wish).
I’m buy-it-for 800k poster. I can see where Jack Slade is getting his #s from. It’s possible if you’re in the GC role, and know which subs to hire and how to keep them on a tight leash (figuratively speaking). But even as someone who has a reasonable amount of time to deal with contractors and subs, I couldn’t make it work unless it were my full-time job more or less.
All I know is we spent $85K on an all-new kitchen (good cabinets but without the pricey high-end appliances); an alarm system; updated (not all-new) bathrooms; new roof; new water heater; expanded breaker box; new storm sewer; new washer and dryer and new plumbing and electric for those; some other plumbing work; painting inside; carpet on stairs and in a couple BR’s; a chandelier installed; yard clearing; and wood blinds throughout. So if you figure this house would need all those things AND to be completely rebuilt, it’s hard to see it being done for $300K. Unless you hire the kind of contractor the seller of our own house hired, some of whose plumbing work we had to go back and fix it was done so stupidly and amateur.
eek- no need to apologize I’m not related to Bricolage nor do I share his taste in design… however your comment and emoticon proves that it is possible.
To the anonymous owners, contractors, developers or whatever who saw a few snap shots of the house and are able to give the world a quote for 700k. I’m sorry you feel threatened by my statement or are in denial because you paid an arm and leg for your renovation. Your reactions and numbers have inspired me to hone in on my skills and get paid because there’s some serious cash to be made out there.
Believe it or not there are some investors out there that are able to look pass the horror in those few pictures and understand that this building is a 4 story brownstone in a hot location for less than a million dollars in 2007. Those facts alone can turn a quick profit and they clearly understand that there’s no need for a 700k renovation packed with emotions and personal touches. And if by chance you are that kind of investor that spends that kind of money I know it will break your lil heart when you drive by after the selling the house and a new dumpster is parked outside the house.
For the record I’m not a developer, broker, or agent.
All that $100K per floor would build is a crappy place to live. With walls and floors you can hear people whispering through. In other words, some cheapo condo flip job. In other words, ruining the building. Why would anyone be so proud of doing that? That doesn’t take skill. That takes a lack of ethics. The fact is a decent gut reno and condo conversion will cost several hundred thousand dollars. But if you do a great job and sell them for $900K each, you still make some money. If you’re not so greedy as to need a 500% profit on the endeavor, it’s a perfectly fine profit to make.