Co-op of the Day: 360 Clinton Avenue
This massive prewar apartment at 360 Clinton Avenue in Clinton Hill just hit the market and looks pretty interesting. With its current price tag of $850,000, the 1,972-square-foot apartment is priced at about $430 per foot; given that there’s not a doorman, the monthly maintenance of $1,673 doesn’t seem like a bargain (but is probably…
This massive prewar apartment at 360 Clinton Avenue in Clinton Hill just hit the market and looks pretty interesting. With its current price tag of $850,000, the 1,972-square-foot apartment is priced at about $430 per foot; given that there’s not a doorman, the monthly maintenance of $1,673 doesn’t seem like a bargain (but is probably explainable by the fact that, from all appearances, this big spread is likely the result of combining two apartments). Waddya think?
360 Clinton Avenue [Douglas Elliman] GMAP P*Shark
Just to step into the fray: I am surprised that the dude’s point about value/rent ratios is so mystifying to folks around here — it’s not all that arcane. Assuming away NYC’s many market distortions, he’s basically right. When ratios head upwards of 30, for instance, something’s got to give.
Of course someone may find an apartment that’s perfect for them and buy it without a thought for its rental value or resale value. But even if you plan to stay in your apartment until you peacefully and painlessly pass away in your sleep it’s helpful to consider the future trajectory of home values, as it will affect your taxes and ability to refi when you lose that cushy sinecure in the financial sector.
many of the posters on this blog, and I have been reading it for about two weeks, do not understand the concept of “maintenance” in cooperative apartment.
It is not a penalty you have to pay for not owning a house, it is not “rent” as several have termed it. It is the carrying costs of the building. In a good co-op a good chunk is tax-deductible, true that is only a good thing if you are making money, but most people are, even now.
But the most astonishing, even childish comments, are the ones about splitting up the units again. Combined, the apartment is worth much more than divided. Big apartments like this, with such reasonable carrying charges are quite rare. This is a lovely apartment I love the wasted space, and many of the super high-end apartments I have been in on Fifth Avenue and Park Avenue have workable but small kitchens. 11217 is the most irrational of the posters. i think he is Mr. Contrarian. I wonder how old he is.
This is a good deal. Under $1 psf maint. is low — and that’s the metric you should be using. Now, the argument about renting a comparable place isn’t a bad one, but you have to weigh how long you want to live here. I don’t think anyone is buying now to flip in 2 or 3 years, so if you like the area (I do), like prewar (I do) and can afford it…
I don’t think I’d buy anything anywhere right now if i thought it wasn’t going to be a long-term (minimum 6-7 years) investment.
If you’re questioning the price on this, then those condos at Claremont Greene going for 750K make NO sense at all.
This is zoned for ps 11, which is a good school. It’s a block from the subway on a gorgeous, well-kept block. Yes, maintenance is high, really high, but for that amount of space this is one time I’m gonna say, so what? If this were a fantasy world and I a lottery winner (who had recently lost a bidding war on the Empire mansion across the street) I would totally consider this.
“thedudeabides…obviously you have no experience with buying a higher end residence, something nice, that you want to live in. Fool.” ~dibs
Yet another classic from a guy who is living in a “high end” residence smack in the ghetto. YOU CAN’T MAKE THIS SH8T UP!
Thanks for the voices of sanity above.
Agree that if you love a place the numbers might make sense to you even if the potential rental income doesn’t support the price. However, when making the major decision to purchase an apartment in NYC, I think it is important to understand what someone else would be willing to pay for the place in the unfortunate circumstance that you need to sell (lots of people losing their jobs these days).
Regarding your other comments:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
1 bad thing about pre-war units is the wooden flrs dont dampen the noise, to neighbors below, of kids running & jumping around. That is the 1 advantage of the cement flrs of post-war bldgs.
purely from investmt standpt, hard to convince oneself to invest this much $$$ buying a residence over rolling the dice later on in the stk, bond, or commodities mkt. Let’s not kid ourselves, it’s anyone’s guess what is the go-forward real estate appreciation rate post this credit bubble. When buying for the need for space, valuation is only relevant from standpoint of understanding cashflow vs. rental option. The days of banking on juicy future appreciation to justify the expensive decision today are over or at best TBD. Buy it cause you can afford it, have no other better use for the $$$, and cause you want / need the space. if prices do pop, consider that to be a pleasant surprise when you sell it.
3C
At today’s rate for a jumbo loan, wasder, my figure for the mortgage on this place came closer to $6500, but then you also have to factor in the mortgage interest deduction, of course…in which case the number is probably closer to yours.
I just don’t think it’s as much of a deal as many have said. It would be a deal for 600K. Certainly not for anything like 850k with that monthly maintenance to have a doorman for a few hours and laundry in the basement.