Brownstones, Co-ops Outperformed Condos in Q4
The median sales price in Brooklyn has been in decline for five consecutive quarters, according to Douglas Elliman’s Fourth Quarter Market Overview. The median figure dipped below $500,000 in the fourth quarter of 2008 for the first time since the first quarter of 2006. Average prices were down 5.2 percent from a year earlier and…
The median sales price in Brooklyn has been in decline for five consecutive quarters, according to Douglas Elliman’s Fourth Quarter Market Overview. The median figure dipped below $500,000 in the fourth quarter of 2008 for the first time since the first quarter of 2006. Average prices were down 5.2 percent from a year earlier and 2.8 percent from the prior three months. Perhaps more noteworthy, the number of transactions plummeted from 3,222 in the fourth quarter of 2007 to 1,846 last quarter; the rate of decline has been increasing for the past year. The only good news: The median sales price of brownstones in Northwest Brooklyn rose 12 percent; co-op prices were also up slightly. Update: This flu must really be going to our heads—as one commenter points out, these reports have been out for several weeks. The Manhattan 10-Year report is the new one. Oh well.
metaphase…go back and print the report out and read it again.
Brownstone median prices are up 12% from the prior year quarter.
Brownstone median price is down 2% from the prior quarter.
Yes, its too small a sample but the sample has always been consistently small. Its not as if it has fallen.
More represenatative would be the 1-3 Family numbers which would include brownstones.
Hell, we’re not even sure what their definition of brownstone is. However it does imply that these are ONLY Northwest Section brownstones and I would have to agree given the size of the prices.
Brownstoner made a hash of summarizing the report.
No where does the report that brownstone prices in northwest brooklyn increased 12%.
The report does say that overall brownstone median prices increased 12%. BUT this is the quarterly increase from Q3 to Q4. The year over year prices are down.
Brownstone median price is down 2% year over year, with 2 families showing a 9% median price decline. The overall price decline for all brownstones was buffered by median price gains in the 3+ family brownstone category (investment properties largely). Regardless, these number are from a total n = 60, which is subject to serious noise.
“No one on Team Bear has yet to quote sales data to support their case.”
See me @ 12:24 PM. Rate of change (number of sales and prices all negative) is all that matters. Case supported like a mofo. No go support your koolaid habit.
***Bid half off peak comps***
No one on Team Bear has yet to quote sales data to support their case.
Vinnie…..its called trading down…you can’t buy a $25 MM townhouse in Manhattan so you buy a 43-5 MM one in brooklyn…the wife wines a bit more but that’s life unlesss you work for her father.
“BHO: No, I mean rate of appreciation. Appreciation is a rate. Price is just a data point.”
No, you mean rate of price [points]. Yes, appreciation is a rate. But the rate of that same appreciation (the terms you just used) is something else (negative in the case of brownstone prices). Yes, price is a data point but I said RATE of price.
Not a market debate, just a technicality. The Jackal is on my squad!
Team Bear…We Go Hard We Go Hard…
***Bid half off peak comps***
mopar – if you think these are “hard statistics” – you are either an idiot or a recently laid off portfolio modeler for CDOs….
Well put lechacal.
Benson, I’m counting 11 different species of Limestone and 5 Sandstone. I’m not seeing Brownstone mentioned immediately and I gotta run so I have to stop. I will confirm that the red/brown is from the iron deposits (iron is very cool it can produce green in stones- peridot is one).
Let me know what you find.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&refer=home&sid=aDZ_c0FbatiY
In reference to Manhattan median apartment price increases, but same for Brooklyn prices: “The gain mostly reflects deals from the first half of the year, before the collapse of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc…”
BHO: No, I mean rate of appreciation. Appreciation is a rate. Price is just a data point. Prices are going up in a very small slice of Brooklyn real estate, prime brownstone properties. And price decreases do not necessarily follow deceleration (although I think they will in this case). Deceleration can lead to any one of (1) depreciation (2) zero price growth or (3) slower price growth. And that’s enough pedantic number talk for today.
How did it come about that I am arguing with the bears? To step back and see the big picture, my view continues to be that prices are falling in Brooklyn and will continue to do so for some time, and that prime brownstones will be less affected than coops, which in turn will be less affected than condos (the hardest hit of all being new construction condos in fringe areas).
It means the jackal. Le Chacal. It’s French. I’ll leave the rest super mysterious other than to note that I am not French.