PLG: Pump Up The Volume, Dance, Dance
Despite the best efforts of our resident troll (who gets more insane every day), all signs point to boom times in Prospect Lefferts Gardens. Of the five houses listed currently on Brown Harris Stevens, for example, three are in contract (including this place that has been on the market forever) and another (the Ocean Avenue…
Despite the best efforts of our resident troll (who gets more insane every day), all signs point to boom times in Prospect Lefferts Gardens. Of the five houses listed currently on Brown Harris Stevens, for example, three are in contract (including this place that has been on the market forever) and another (the Ocean Avenue house featured in OHP two weeks ago) is tied up in a bidding war somewhere between 5 and 10 percent over ask. One reader who hit a bunch of the open houses this weekend said they were crawling with young couples priced out of Clinton Hill and Fort Greene and drooling at the comparatively low prices and proximity to the park. (New York Magazine was way out in front of this one back in ’05.) If you’re a long-term believer in Brooklyn, it’s hard to see how you can go wrong with PLG. But…are prices outpacing the reality of infrastructure, amenities, etc. or is the rest of the world just waking up and coming to its senses? (We would encourage people to sign in for discussions on this one as our little PLG toad will most likely be firing away full throttle in his best efforts to disrupt civil discourse.)
Photo from Planet PLG 2006 house tour slide show.
2:48, what you fail to see is that the very apt buildings you mention are filling up with young hipsters. You have already been proved wrong. Lanlords have an investment in getting as much money as they can for their apts. They are already onto this.
My take – The apartment to private house ratio in and around this area means that it will be “up and coming” for years to come. Too many renters in (and owners of) those apartment buildings who either wont change that hood (they are complacent/don’t care so long as it works for them), cant change it (they are low income/have other priorities), or are working against it (few bad apples).
In Brooklyn you are taking a very big gamble moving to an “up and coming” area with a lot of apartment dwellers and hoping for radical change. For every one owner invested in the neighborhood there are 10 renters who don’t give a shit, and 1 or 2 who are actively changing the neighborhood for the worse, the former being not much better than the latter.
Certainly its a unique area – shockingly undervalued given its proximity to the park, but this is for a reason. There are certain negative aspects of the area (schools, crime, cleanliness of main streets, etc.) that will only change when the residents of the apartments change. Like it or not, there is just something about apartment density that allows things to become entrenched in a neighborhood for better or worse.
occasional teacher:
“much of the white-flight in the 60s and 70s was driven by “bussing”….”
OK. But this isn’t the 60s or 70s. I’m pretty sure no parent posting here plans on sending their kids to school three decades in the past. (If you own a time machine, then you really *can* afford private school.) And I highly doubt that most of the people buying homes and posting here face any such dire choice, except in their own minds.
“There are obvious reasons kids from most NYC public high schools don’t attend good colleges, or in most cases, don’t attend any college.”
Yes, and those reasons have largely to do with the kids’ home and economic backgrounds. To hear it told, you’d think that we had an epidemic of kids from upper-middle-class white-collar homes going to public schools and turning into gang members and illiterates. What we have instead is too many parents with time and resources choosing not to involve themselves in schools in ways that would benefit their kids, their neighbors and in the long run, all of us.
People love to throw around the term “community” here, but community’s about more than doing a nice job on your cornice and composing angry blog comments about Fedders buildings.
I’m looking and prices are dropping. How much depends on the area and sanity of the original askings. I’ve seen 50G taken off houses in Boerum Hill, which is fairly negligible all the way to 200K taken off a flipper house in Midwood (Corcoran listing on Rugby). Depending on what you want and where, you can get some great deals right now.
linusvanpelt, you wrote:
Public schools get better when parents who live near them send their kids there. If you wait for someone else to do the work for you, it will never happen. Period. Doesn’t matter if it’s PLG or Park Slope.”
Yes it does. It’s all in the numbers.
You wrote:
“The standard answer to this is: “Well, I’m not willing to force my child to be a social experiment.” That’s usually BS and a false choice.”
No it isn’t. And think what you want, but much of the white-flight in the 60s and 70s was driven by “bussing”. Some parents chose the moment bussing was forced on them to enroll their kids in private schools, most notably my Catholic school buddies.
You wrote:
“In most Brooklyn neighborhoods that are (like PLG) largely middle-class or above, your child will not be in physical danger…”
True for grades K through 5.
You wrote:
“…nor will his or her options in life be ruined by going to the public school.”
There are obvious reasons kids from most NYC public high schools don’t attend good colleges, or in most cases, don’t attend any college.
You wrote:
“It just means you will have to get off your ass and do more work — by volunteering at the school and maybe by involving your child in more enriching activities outside school to make up for extras the school doesn’t have. But a lot of parents can’t be bothered to do that.”
Or, when possible, parents buy the worst house in a neighborhood with the best school. But long story short, the best bet is to get your kid into the gifted program, either the Eagle or CIG program. If your kid passes the entrance test, you’re situation is vastly improved, no matter where you live.
You observed:
“It amazes me how many people make populist arguments for moving to a neighborhood like PLG (I want to live somewhere diverse, I don’t want to live with a bunch of homogeneous rich yuppies, I want a tight-knit community)–then immediately follow that up with, “And you can always send your kids to private school.””
Not every urban experience is necessary for a child’s development. My wife grew up in Park Slope in the 60s and 70s when it was a mixed neighborhood in transition from a temporary low point to a neighborhood that has since experienced an apotheosis, at least in the minds of its residents.
In any case, kids get plenty of urban social benefits by living in Brooklyn and attending private school. My kids have done both, but are both in public schools today.
occasional teacher – interesting comments – thanks.
I don’t understand how veggieburger and her/his ilk don’t see that prices have already dropped! I’ve been looking for awhile now, and there is no question that things are cheaper. Some places are still going for top dollar, and certainly the low end is moving, but the majority of houses are either sitting on the market for months or selling for less than they would have a year ago. I’ll certainly agree that the market is in flux and that many places are being listed at or are still listed at high prices, but those ones aren’t selling. Every time I see a house, the realtor tells me that the price is ‘negotiable’ and now I have realtors calling me to see I’m interesed in places!! It’s about time!
Anonymous at March 13, 2007 1:25 PM, you wrote:
“Schools can improve pretty quickly.”
True. But that doesn’t mean they will and it doesn’t mean the process started shortly before the improvement was noticed. And it doesn’t mean that anecdotal, off-the-cuff assessments were accurate in the first place.
You wrote:
“PS154 in Park Slope and Windsor Terrace were not considered good schools.”
It all depends on who you ask and whether you actually get inside the building. My personal experience with 154 in Windsor Terrace began in 1997. I heard the same comments about the school. What I learned was this: the blabbermouths yammering about 154 had no idea what they were talking about. Because I lived around the corner at the time, I walked the halls a number of times, met with the principal, talked with the teachers and paid attention to the kids in the neighborhood who attended.
My assessment in 1997: Excellent public school. Moreover, it was actually operating BELOW capacity in those days, and the building itself wasn’t off-putting, as some public school buildings are. I called it an undiscoverre4d gem of the school system.
Of course, Windsor Terrace was only just beginning to feel the Park Slope overflow a decade ago. Once renters from Park Slope bought homes in Windsor Terrace, the new residents proclaimed PS 154 the most improved school in Brooklyn. Imagine that!
You wrote:
“The same will happen to at least some of the schools in PLG, Prospect Heights (PS9 is on the way), Crown Heights, and Bed-Stuy once a critical mass of parents committed to their neighborhood schools decide to push for improvement.”
In other words, when all the uninvolved parents and their uninvolved student off-spring are outnumbered by caring parents and diligent students, results will improve. I certainly agree with you there.
it’s always thin pickings this time of year. The best deals have already sold in the spring and early summer. What’s left usually is overpriced or has something wrong with it.
People are so worried about a bubble that they think prices are falling even when they aren’t.