A Last-Ditch Effort to Save Admiral's Row
Until the Navy Base at Wallabout Bay was closed in 1967, if you were a married officer, you got a chance to shack up in one of the ten historic row houses looking out over Flushing Avenue (drawn here as they were in 1855). When the Army Corp of Engineers took over the location, the…
Until the Navy Base at Wallabout Bay was closed in 1967, if you were a married officer, you got a chance to shack up in one of the ten historic row houses looking out over Flushing Avenue (drawn here as they were in 1855). When the Army Corp of Engineers took over the location, the houses were left to decay, though some Navy families continued to live in the houses into the 1970s. In 1996, the New York State Historic Preservation Office signed off on an agreement that gave the Army Corp the right to demolish the houses without any landmark review. The city, which took control of all of the Navy Yard except Admiral’s Row in 2001, is planning to knock the houses down to make way for a supermarket when it finally takes control. (The transfer is still hung up in bureaucratic red tape.) Despite the efforts of various preservationist groups in recent years, the Bloomberg shows no signs of budging, citing the $25 million cost of restoration as being prohibitively high. Now a group known as Brooklyn’s Other Museum of Brooklyn has made an eleventh-hour appeal to Governor Spitzer in a letter last month:
I am but one American, yet Admiral’s Row is mine and belongs to every citizen of the United States of America. Don’t allow the Mayor of the city of New York to demolish a national heritage site to satisfy a political favor. It appears you are the only person who, with a stroke of your pen, can undo this madness and insure longevity for Admiral’s Row. Please rescind the A.R.M.O.A. (Admiral’s Row Memorandum Agreement).
Does anyone know more about the “political favor”? How about a timeline for the expected demolition>
Admiral’s Row [B.O.M.B.]GMAP
Retail May Trump Admiral’s Row Preservation [Brownstoner]
City Trying to Demolish Admiral’s Row [Brownstoner]
Group Asks for a ‘Pardon’ for Admiral’s Row [Curbed]
Ella, those monster retailers do owe the little guy in brooklyn and honestly Im the last person to ask for a hand out But they can write off the donations.
I firmly belive officers row is bigger than the navy yard and it’s immediate area. It belongs to America.
Really no need for personal insults are there? No need to insinuate that I’m in bed with bush. All it really does is make you lose credibility.
It also bothers me when people claim that the government doesn’t listen to the community, when what they mean is that the government doesn’t listen to me. I’ve got news for you Bx2Bklyn, Pshark and CHP: you may not like the plan, but there are plenty of people in the community who do and they’ve let their voices be heard at the several community meetings that the Navy Yard has hosted on this event. The community does not speak with a unified voice on this issue. SO arguments about not listening to the community are self serving. The Navy Yard listened to a part of the community, just not the part that you align yourself with. And it would be impossible to realy know which portion is bigger.
And Pshark – there’s alot of distant between “home depot owes us” and actually having the free material in hand. Just because you think it should be true, doesn’t even come close to making it true. It’s nice that you know how everything “should” work, but some of us have to live in the real world, where we have to live with the disappointment that people (and corporations” don’t always do what they should. And sometimes you have to compromise between 2 worthy goals (preservation and community development) when there aren’t enough resources available to accomplish both (even though there “should” be enough resources to do both).
Straight up BS. The cries for a new supermarket were only heard after the neighborhood became desirable. I stand firm behind that comment.
I really do believe retail giants like Lowes, Homedepot, Ikea and Target would donate goods and help train. They owe Brooklyn big time. The unemployed folks in the surrounding areas can be trained and employed to restore those homes and that would boost up morale. Some future residents can say with pride “my grand dad painted that wall back in the day and that was our ticket out the projects”.
(No offense to PJ’s)
There was never a state or city wide campaign to “rebuild” the row, I’ve heard only cries about “saving” the row and we failed to overcome that hurdle. If we did make it past it and it failed than you can talk Ella.
Why don’t they put it to a vote and mail out questioners/literature like they did with that stadium?
Publically at a community board meeting? Oh yeah- that is really so public and really got the word out to the general public.
As has been said- this property really belongs to the people, despite you and the city bureaucrats’ delusions of grandeur and stewardship. And CHP (thanks buddy!) is right- all smoke and mirrors on the Yard’s part. but that’s the role of petty bureaucrats- sit behind a desk, obfuscate, play little political games aand manipulate the truth (c’mon- you’re in bed with George Bush, aren’t you?) and basically do what they have decided the people want, without bothering to listen to the people at all. I’ll give you that Ella, you’re an excellent shill for the Navy Yard, albeit of limited capacity. I’ve dealt too long with your type of swiftboat deskwarmer. And I am sick of you.
Yes I think this has run it’s course. But one last correction- when I said that these plans were announced in 2005, I mean publicly at a community board hearing. Since that time it’s been covered numerous times Curbed, the brooklyn papers, the Brooklyn eagle, the city section of the New York times, hell even Time Out NY had a little piece aboutt it last summer. So if you’ve only heard about it recently that’s your own fault. It’s not because the Navy Yard has been hiding.
Just for the record, that was indeed my long winded self. Hello typekey.
I think part of the problem here is that we are all a bunch of anonymous people trying to discuss the fate of a site that, from what I can see, most of us have no official connection with. Ella, you seem to at least be in contact with, or in the employ of, the Navy Yard. If you have been able to tour AR, and seem to know what grants and programs have been applied for, etc, then you obviously have some kind of relationship with the Yard. That is great, gives the rest of us a perspective that we couldn’t have any other way. Yet, like most of the officials at the Yard, in regards to AR, you have been noodling out snippets of information like a hostile witness being cross examined in court.
The possibility of a grant from the National Trust, for example, was suggested 2 days ago. If you knew that that option had been pursued by the Yard, why not just say so then? No, you had to dismiss the suggestion, and me for suggesting it, as unrealistic and naieve. The reason that temperatures rise on this thread is that some of us really care about preservation, and this site seems to be an obvious, seen from the street, kind of situation that we have seen deteriorate right in front of our eyes. Since the land and the houses are supposed to belong to us as “the people”, why should we not have a say in what happens to it?
Everything substantive in this city gets decided and wheeled and dealed behind closed doors. WHatever your connection to the Yard, you have been privy to some of that wheeling and dealing. We have not. Bx2Bklyn, who is my friend, does have a long history in not for profit, as well an arts background. Her job involves a lot of contact with military affiliated groups and with foundations and volunteer groups. So she does know quite a bit about dealing with the city, as well as all of the other groups involved. I’ve got my props in different areas, but I think I know a few things, as well.
Point being that perhaps a new approach is needed, if the Navy Yard and the city are truly interested in viable suggestions. It is unfair to demand that we (being the outside public) prove anything to you or the Yard, by coming up with real plans. First of all, we have no access to what has been tried. Secondly, and more importantly, there seems to be no official forum to do so. The decisions have been made behind closed doors, and all we are really doing is banging on those doors demanding to be heard. If the supermarket was proposed in 2005, and the first we are hearing about it is sometime earlier this year, then our options for an alternative, no matter how good, sensible and doable, were always destined to go splat against those closed doors.
I still think that viable solutions have not been fully explored because no one in charge wants them to be. I think that the supermarket is a paper tiger, thrown up to get people excited and add class and racial concerns to the mix – hotheads on all sides love that stuff. I don’t see where anyone seems to have even entertained saving even one of these houses. Is that too much to ask? No, it wouldn’t be the Row, but it would be something. The frustration arises because of the all or nothing, oh well, we tried, can’t do it, sorry! kind of attitude the city, and frankly, you as their mouthpiece, however fair or unfair that job description is, seem to have.
I think this discussion has probably run its course, since we will probably never know what was really tried or not tried, in terms of preservation. I live no where near the Yard, so maybe that’s why I personally, never heard much about preservation attempts, and if you were involved in such, I apologize for any misinterpretations I may have had in your personal involvement in this issue. I just wish preservation, which includes the possibilities of adaptive usage, had been given more weight. Seems to me the wrecking ball was placed next to the buildings, and then the city threw out the challange to preservationists to save it. Very short sighted, and very sad.
What are you talking about? The Navy Yard has had concern for the community since it was taken over from the Feds. Its mission is to provide employment to the members of the surrounding communities. That’s why they do what they do. Always has been. That’s why there’s an employment center in the Yard that has helped place over 1,000 people in jobs in over the last several years. That’s why they funnel all their profits into building new industrial buildings in the yard and renovating those historic ones that are in good enough condition to to be converted into modern use. The Admirals Row thing is an opportunity that didn’t exist until the Feds decided that AR was surplus property. That’s why it’s only being brought up now. What was the Navy Yard supposed to do about the lack of the supermarket before then? Build one in one of the dry docks? I don’t think so.
You see this is what bothers me about the whole debate. It’s really very simple and it’s been made much more complicated. Everyone agrees that when it’s feasible, it’s better policy to renovate historic buildings and to re-integrate those buildings into the urban fabric. The real question here is this: Is that a feasible possibility here? The Navy Yard says no – you say yes. Basically you are all thinking that you know better than the professionals at the Navy Yard. You – who have no background in real estate development, economic development, historic preservation assume you know better than the experts who are trained in the field. You’ve never even been inside these houses or seen them up close. You’ve never sat down with a pro forma and thought about what it would take. In your heart you want it to be feasible so therefore you believe that it must be feasible. And you think that anyone who can’t figure out a way to make it feasible is just not intelligent enough or creative enough, or else just doesn’t care enough. But you know, sometimes something just doesn’t work no matter how much you want it to. Reality gets in the way and so you’re left with “what is” instead of ” what should be” and I understand that that can be frustrating, but you do nothing by implying that there’s some nefarious plan to screw the community by cutting some under the table deal.
Everything you and others on this thread has said is true. There are plenty of examples out there where some creativity and thought has managed to save a building that, at first glance, didn’t appear to be feasible. But for every one of those that were save there are hundreds of buildings for which, despite the best efforts of intelligent people, no solution could be found. Surely you’re not implying that it’s always possible (or appropriate). You’ve got to at least admit that there are situations out there where, either the buildings are not savable or what is being proposed instead of the old buildings will have such a positive impact that it’s worth giving up the old building. So the folks at the Navy Yard have looked at the cost of renovating these buildings, the list of uses that would make sense to put into the renovated buildings, the existing condition of the buildings, the needs of the surrounding community and come up with this plan. All you’ve done is come up with ephemeral notions of “it could be so much better” but you’ve got no concrete plan. You’ve got no non-profit museum lined up that is willing to pay for the renovation and occupy the space. You can’t point to a single funding or grant program that would actually provide a grant that could make this possible. The supermarket plan was first announced in 2005, and in the past 2 years noone has brought forth a alternative plan that was doable. You want to shut me up. Bring me a real plan that could actually work instead of a bunch of “what if”s. That’s all you’ve done during this whole discussion.
First of all, Ella, you know nothing about what I do, what I know or what I think. So all the assumptions are on your part. I happen to have a museum background and I have a very good idea about non-profits and how they work. in fact I work for one now. what I do know about the Intrepid is that yes, it’s popular, and that translates into money- not just for the museum (which most likely still operates on grant funding I’m sure, and donation) but for the area as well. It’s a tourist attraction- a huge one- it brings big bucks to the City that way. Many special, major events are held on the Intrepid that also bring in money.
See, Ella, creative people know how to take an important piece of history and look at ways of supporting it. Money people with vision know how to market it. Educators see a piece of history that they hope will inspire youth. And so it goes. The benefits are not necessarily monetary but they are very very real. Frivolous? Pretty Houses? How about ignorance and lack of education or pride.
As for the supermarket- how kind of you to become concerned after all these years. Your sudden concern for the community is about making money at your convenience.If you didn’t have AR to tear down, I highly doubt you would be so “concerned” for the needs of the community.
It’s all very well to jump and down insisting I’m wrong, but as the Basuto proverb says,””If a man does away with his traditional way of living and throws away his good customs, he had better first make certain that he has something of value to replace them.”
and he doesn’t mean a supermarket.