Professional Window Installation - total rip off?!

Hi all, we need to replace all 11 windows in our apartment and we’re getting outrageous quotes from window installation companies ($1000-$1500 per window). We’ve asked for the windows that face the street to be 1/4 over 1/4 laminate glass for noise reduction, so that definitely increases the price, but are made-to-order/professionally installed windows really THAT different from the ones that you can order to spec from home depot or another big box store and then have installed by a contractor?

It seems like these window companies are just middle men – they don’t manufacture the windows, they just order and install them. Has anyone had experience buying directly from the manufacturer?

Would love any recommendations for companies that aren’t charging an arm and a leg! Thank you!

encarnacionroger

in Doors & Windows 5 years and 9 months ago

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lynnepoling | 5 years and 8 months ago

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Try,
Western, arcadia, quaker, or grahm, to name a few of the better all Aluminum brands.

stevecym | 5 years and 8 months ago

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i would go back an try to understand what has gone wrong with Crystal that some on here have complained about them and see if you can make them work for you. i installed two of them on either side of another kind of aluminum window in the 1990’s and we had no issues and i know they have behaved as they should because i am still in touch with the owner. i have a friend who knows a lot about different window manufacturers and will ask more when i talk to him; he will know the name of another manufacturer. i am worried that some of these manufacturers may be more regional, so it may be hard to find one.

encarnacionroger | 5 years and 8 months ago

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Hey all, so neither Marvin nor Anderson make all aluminum double hung windows, which is what our building requires. Any other brands you know of that are better than Crystal for this type of window? Thank you!

stevecym | 5 years and 8 months ago

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and to add to what Dork says, the guys that install marvin and pella probably do not even touch the slew of other stuff out there.

stevecym | 5 years and 8 months ago

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sarah, you just said something key: “certified dealers”. when you buy the lower end stuff, the product is cheaper and the manufacturers probably don’t care who puts them in (I put them in for someone in the ’90’s and was not technically running a business and the person who sold me the windows did not give a toss if I screwed it up). if you go with the better product, they will only sell to a certified installer and that is because they do not want the warranty claims. and look at the others piping in about crystal and other cheap windows, we did it here and I am ok with them but if I was in a house with real potential, I would never. even though those certified installers cost more, they have more skin in the game and are another level of tradesperson; the job will go smooth. it is easy to install windows when things go well, but it is also easy to screw them up.

someone else will come on here to offer a rec for a marvin person.

dorkofwindsor | 5 years and 8 months ago

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I have Crystal – older ones and newer ones – purchased by the previous owner. Borderline Junk IMHO. I’d ditch that window installer who benchmarks to Crystal.

slopefarm | 5 years and 8 months ago

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We went cheap on windows. Don’t go cheap on windows. Probably our biggest regret.

encarnacionroger | 5 years and 8 months ago

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Thanks @booisgolden @stevecym.
The 10 window replacement companies we contacted appeared decent (they have good reviews on yelp, etc.) but none of them sell Marvin, Pella, Anderson or any of the other more reputable brands. I guess we’ll reach out to these manufacturers directly for certified dealers who can install them. I assume it’s the same deal though, right – we’re likely to get a range of prices despite them being for the exact same product, in the exact same NYC area?
Do you have any recommendations on a particular dealer?

stevecym | 5 years and 8 months ago

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i originally came on here to try to tell you what you should not do. the cheap crap put in by someone who does not do windows. i consider crystal to be at the top of the cheap stuff. i know nothing about marvin but if i were doing my house and money permitted, i would pay attention to the folks who suggest marvin is a better window; products like that can not survive at the prices they command unless they are much better. (this is true in all sorts of cases across industries and products. people who buy a lot of product know that)

greenworks | 5 years and 8 months ago

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Yes Marvin really is that much better than Crystal.

Yes Marvin does make an aluminum clad wood window, we have them (Marvin Ultimate Next Generations) and they look and operate fabulously years after install (they open and close so nicely that we still occasionally just open and close them just because it is so nice lolol – call us basic, I know).

I will admit, I never got the “cult of Marvin” mentality and even ridiculed it until we dealt with the company then installed them. I went into this with a bias against Marvin and more into Kolbe, Loewen etc. But as I dug, then corresponded with Marvin, I found they truly care about customer service and make an excellent product. Even after point of sale.

When we were looking to replace our windows we reread every single one of the 3,450 Brownstoner forum posts on this topic from the dawn of time (they’re all in the archives, I suggest you look). We considered every brand mentioned and even tho Marvins broke our bank and we had to install in waves, they still represented a great value for the money. If we thought there was a better value out there that was more expensive we would have done that brand instead, despite the cost difference. If there was something cheaper out there that met our specs we certainly would have done that as well.

If you’re not picky about how much plastic appears on your “wood interior” windows you can check out some of the higher end Andersen “wood” clad windows that have very visible plastic jamb liners. The heavy use of plastic on the “wood” interior annoyed the crap out of me but doesn’t even register for other people.

We rejected Pella out of hand bc everyone we knew who installed them had major issues.

I’m sure Trimline is great but for us, the fact that Marvin was so well known and distributed made the difference for us. We had extreme decision fatigue after years of renos and just wanted to hit the easy button.

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You should really check out the Trimline eclipse series they are better and cheaper then Marvin windows. I’ve used Trimline windows on multiple jobs and in my own house. Do yourself a favor and look them up.

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Thanks all. @cate @stevecym @Bob Marvin @rwinbrooklyn – every company that I’ve talked to either offers Crystal (mostly 2000 series) or something that they self-manufacture which they compare to Crystal. Is Marvin much better?

jserpico | 5 years and 8 months ago

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We quoted multiple windows companies for one 10 * 8 patio door, 4 large casements, 8 double hung, all came back in the >30k range. We also went to Crystal windows’ showroom in flushing, hoping that we could get the same quality but spend less. Nope, the windows looked very low-end and of poor quality. At the end we ordered Pella Architecture Series from Lowes. The quoted price from the guy sent by Pella directly doubled Lowes price and he said if I made the purchase within 24 hours, he could give me additional $2000 discount. Seemed fishy and left me thinking how big their margins are.

2345bcde | 5 years and 8 months ago

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Trimline make great windows. They are approved by the landmarks folks too. They’re wood on the inside and clad with aluminum and are much cheaper then Marvin’s. Marvin windows are made entirely of wood and really look bad within a few years. I recently got a quote for 11 marvin windows installed from heights woodworking for $36,000 and $27,000 from bay ridge window and door. I paid $9,000 forTrimline windows and installed them myself. The windows I’m describing are a much higher quality window them aluminum replacement windows and cost more.

cate | 5 years and 8 months ago

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We have Champion aluminum in bronze color with thermal breaks and they’ve been just fine. Of course Marvins with their thinner muntins and installed in the original pockets would be dreamy — the original windows would be even better.

stevecym | 5 years and 9 months ago

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bobmarvin: then they were good windows back then. leaders in the industry. I mentioned that because as late as the 1990’s crystal was still using the thermal break as a selling point.

RobertGMarvin

in Doors & Windows 5 years and 9 months ago

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stevecym,
FWIW the aluminum Marjo windows I had installed >40 years ago have thermal breaks.

stevecym | 5 years and 9 months ago

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now that cate mentioned aluminum, crystal windows in flushing seems to make a good product. I ordered some for a customer a few years back and for a long time people were getting rid of aluminum windows because they transmit heat. but they now have “thermal breaks”. the bronzetone is nice. I have a house and if budget were less of an issue, I would go with the marvins.

cate | 5 years and 9 months ago

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    ["manage_options"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["moderate_comments"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["manage_categories"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["manage_links"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["upload_files"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["import"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["unfiltered_html"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_posts"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_others_posts"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_published_posts"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["publish_posts"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_pages"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_10"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_9"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_8"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_7"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_6"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_5"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_4"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_3"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_2"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_1"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_others_pages"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_published_pages"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["publish_pages"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_pages"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_others_pages"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_published_pages"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_posts"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_others_posts"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_published_posts"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_private_posts"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_private_posts"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["read_private_posts"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_private_pages"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_private_pages"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["read_private_pages"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_users"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["create_users"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["unfiltered_upload"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_dashboard"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["update_plugins"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_plugins"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["install_plugins"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["update_themes"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["install_themes"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["update_core"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["list_users"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["remove_users"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["promote_users"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_theme_options"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_themes"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["export"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["NextGEN Gallery overview"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["NextGEN Use TinyMCE"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["NextGEN Upload images"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["NextGEN Manage gallery"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["NextGEN Manage tags"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["NextGEN Manage others gallery"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["NextGEN Edit album"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["NextGEN Change style"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["NextGEN Change options"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["email_users_notify"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["email_single_user"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["email_multiple_users"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["email_user_groups"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["NextGEN Attach Interface"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["copy_posts"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["ure_edit_roles"]=>
    bool(false)
    ["ure_create_roles"]=>
    bool(false)
    ["ure_delete_roles"]=>
    bool(false)
    ["ure_create_capabilities"]=>
    bool(false)
    ["ure_delete_capabilities"]=>
    bool(false)
    ["ure_manage_options"]=>
    bool(false)
    ["ure_reset_roles"]=>
    bool(false)
    ["edit_ads_txt"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["manage_feed_settings"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_feed_source"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["read_feed_source"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_feed_source"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_feed_sources"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_others_feed_sources"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["publish_feed_sources"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["read_private_feed_sources"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_feed_sources"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_private_feed_sources"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_published_feed_sources"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_others_feed_sources"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_private_feed_sources"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_published_feed_sources"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["manage_feed_source_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_feed_source_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_feed_source_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["assign_feed_source_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_feed_item"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["read_feed_item"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_feed_item"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_feed_items"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_others_feed_items"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["publish_feed_items"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["read_private_feed_items"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_feed_items"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_private_feed_items"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_published_feed_items"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_others_feed_items"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_private_feed_items"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_published_feed_items"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["manage_feed_item_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_feed_item_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_feed_item_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["assign_feed_item_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_feed_blacklist"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["read_feed_blacklist"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_feed_blacklist"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_feed_blacklists"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_others_feed_blacklists"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["publish_feed_blacklists"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["read_private_feed_blacklists"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_feed_blacklists"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_private_feed_blacklists"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_published_feed_blacklists"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_others_feed_blacklists"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_private_feed_blacklists"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_published_feed_blacklists"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["manage_feed_blacklist_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_feed_blacklist_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_feed_blacklist_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["assign_feed_blacklist_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_feed_template"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["read_feed_template"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_feed_template"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_feed_templates"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_others_feed_templates"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["publish_feed_templates"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["read_private_feed_templates"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_feed_templates"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_private_feed_templates"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_published_feed_templates"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_others_feed_templates"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_private_feed_templates"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_published_feed_templates"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["manage_feed_template_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_feed_template_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_feed_template_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["assign_feed_template_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_shortcoder"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["read_shortcoder"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_shortcoder"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_shortcoders"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_others_shortcoders"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["publish_shortcoders"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_shortcoders"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_published_shortcoders"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_others_shortcoders"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_published_shortcoders"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["aioseo_manage_seo"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["aioseo_page_analysis"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["aioseo_page_general_settings"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["aioseo_page_advanced_settings"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["aioseo_page_schema_settings"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["aioseo_page_social_settings"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_edit_htaccess"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_titles"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_general"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_sitemap"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_404_monitor"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_link_builder"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_redirections"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_role_manager"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_search_console"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_site_analysis"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_onpage_analysis"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_onpage_general"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_onpage_advanced"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_onpage_snippet"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_onpage_social"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_admin_bar"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_analytics"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_content_ai"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["srm_manage_redirects"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["SPF Manage Analytics"]=>
    bool(false)
    ["administrator"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["editor"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

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