To Tile or Not? Advice for encaustic cement tile in entryway?
So we have a small area at our front door, 7′ x 3, that was already stripped to its original subfloor before we bought the apartment. We thought encaustic cement tile would be beautiful there, but once we bought it and had it shipped (and anyone who has ever looked into this tile knows how expensive shipping is) I immediately realized our problem: we have approximately 1″ depth to work with (before the door won’t open, and we are not replacing the door for many reasons) and our tile is 3/4″ thick. I know it’s not a great idea to use a flexible thinset or Ditra directly over the subfloor (without ply or cement backer) but could we do it? I mean, they didn’t have ply when they originally installed encaustic tile in these old brownstone entryways… right? I do know this means we might see some cracking but if we use small grout joints between the tiles and leave a little expansion space around the edges? The other option is to cut our losses: sell the tile and install more hardwood or just put down a 1/2″ ply and a 1/4-1/2″ all-weather carpet. Thoughts? Thanks!
daintydu
in Tile 11 years and 2 months ago
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9 replies
dorkofwindsor | 11 years and 2 months ago
not an expert, just a homeowner. what i would do is cut out that existing slat subfloor. if you have access below, or even if you don’t try from above, block between the joists with 2×10 or 2×12 laid flat so it is a very solid surface (maybe even two rows of 2x), and then lay cement board down on that. the cement board will then protrude around the thickness of the existing subfloor, then lay the tile on top of that. i would also put in a waterproofing membrane for good measure, with all the moisture and wood, before laying the thinset / mortar. all screws, no nails. i’d be surprised if that isn’t solid enough and address the depth issue.
daintydu | 11 years and 2 months ago
Greenmountain was so, so helpful when i spoke to him. I only wish he was available sooner so I could hire him to do the method he is recommending (we are planning to put our place on the market in mid-March). We currently have a few coir mats from ikea which i’ve cut to size & they do work well at getting the leaves & dirt off our shoes. Am looking into a custom cut one (in grey or black) or maybe a rubber mat (1/2″) with Flor tiles on top. Thanks again to everyone!
cate | 11 years and 2 months ago
Just looked at the photo and now I see the problem. Your Ikea mats are working very well, lol. Green Mountain has a good suggestion but I just thought I’d mention you can install wall to wall coco mat in that space (so it is the same level with the floor in the hall). You may have seen this in some commercial spaces. You can order it from Mats Inc. But if it were me, I might just lay down 1/4 inch plywood and just lay the tile on top with no spaces and no grout.
greenmountain | 11 years and 2 months ago
I had a chat with Daintydu before this notice, and I know two others in this conversation and have seen their homes. The picture is helpful. This is not like the tile in the Williamsburgguys vestibule, or a typical brownstone, or many prewar bathrooms. That is English tile, high-fired, vitrified clay, with pigment blended in throughout the body of the tile, sometimes also inlaid on the surface such as in medallions, rosettes, fleur-de-lis, etc. not glazed on to the surface, and we call it encaustic. It would have been set on rubble filling half way down the joist cavities and supported by short cross-laid planks on ledger strips fastened to the sides of the joists. Daintydu has Moroccan cement, encaustic with a slip of colored cement hand painted over a thicker base of course sand aggregate and cement (concrete). It is less dense than the fused particles of vitrified clay in the English type, thus it needs to be thicker. Her coop is a garden level, and probably never had tile in that spot, but it is a great place for it, especially now that is a primary apartment entrance. The substrate needs to be rigid and secure. Nailed down 4″ boards won’t do. To keep tile in plane with the adjacent surfaces, I would remove the existing subfloor and insert one continuous manufactured sub floor panel 3/4″ with Schluter Ditra. It is a small area and overlapping panels are not needed, and the Ditra can be eliminated too, but I would use it. No need to cut the door. No need to fill the joist cavities with clinkers, broken bricks, and sand. I advised Daintydu this is most conveniently a warm weather job, with access to the garden for cutting and mixing mortar. Were I available now, I would gladly take this on, with a little interior work space, but our schedules did not align. For examples of encaustic English tiled vestibule floors, see greenmountainconstructionanddesigh.com. I have another photo of this type of floor in a bathroom and will have them on my website soon. I am hoping more of you will ask me to look at similar jobs, and mosaic entrances, and Moroccan tile jobs too. Green Mountain
cate | 11 years and 2 months ago
Maybe the entry never had tile at all? Could you refinish the subfloor and use it as is with a nice mat over it to protect it? We have a soft original subfloor (of pine or fir) in our garden floor entry. I find the Ikea door mats are very thick and long lasting. They’re also generously sized. They do a really good job of saving our floors.
daintydu | 11 years and 2 months ago
Thanks all. That’s fascinating about the original underlayment technique… thanks for all the detail! For reasons I don’t have the time to get into, we can’t cut down the door right now, but it’s a good suggestion! Looks like we may end up w hardwoods or a mat.
williamsburgguys | 11 years and 2 months ago
I may be mistaken on how they all were done, but from what I’ve read and heard I think originally most real encaustic tiles were laid over a deep bed of cinders and other crushed substrate. My house has 100+ year old encaustic and there is a pit about 4″ deep which is carved into and hangs around the joists and is made of thick timbers. This pit is solid, lined with some sort of old felt or other material and filled with crushed and packed rubble over which a bed of cement was poured and the tiles set into. So they wouldn’t have been simply set into an inch deep recess over the subfloor. I wonder if some different processed was used in yours or if maybe some other kind of tiles were there originally such as the porcelain hexes or something. Usually those old hexes or small circles were set into a thinner bed of mortar with the metal mesh underneath. Interesting.
deanbh | 11 years and 2 months ago
+1 for cutting the door, we did similar to one of our doors for new subfloor/flooring, cant rather than trying to have a different level.
daveinbedstuy | 11 years and 2 months ago
Would it not be relatively easy to add a new threshold and trim some off the bottom of the door?