Old Natural Gas Lines Running through multi-family - need recommendations

We have an old 8 family in brooklyn that still has the old gas lines running each unit not just for the stove but also through the walls to the ceilings that I guess at one time were to light the building back in the day before electricity(?) We wanted to shut those old unused lines down so that the gas only runs to the stoves. National Grid didnt do anything other than turn the units meter off when they came and put a lock on it and did nothing to help suggest how to best resolve the issue so they werent much help. **So has anyone else had to deal with this and if so can you recommend anyone that can give us a generally economically efficient solution to the problem? Is it easier to try to cap pipes in each unit or just run new line from the meter? We are just looking for the safe and effective solution w/ minimal cost** Thanks very much for your help!!!!

mrohrmann

in Inspection 12 years ago

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cate | 12 years ago

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There’s no way to shut down the old gas light lines so the gas runs only to stoves. It’s all the same lines. Putting in a line will cost a few thousand dollars depending on how far it runs, how difficult is the route it takes, and permits. (This is if you already have service to the line from the street.)

mrohrmann | 12 years ago

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Thx guys, pros have already been called just hope it’s a straight forward solution to put this behind us. Anyone know what it costs to run lines, black pipe is relatively cheap so if you can reroute existing line to just stove can it be a simple job if pipes run up risers in kitchen? And in most old buildings is that where has usually enters each unit typically? Thx!!

mrohrmann | 12 years ago

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Thx guys, pros have already been called just hope it’s a straight forward solution to put this behind us.

ellenlourie | 12 years ago

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> Gas runs to each unit with separate meters, so hopefully lines run up riser in kitchen so we can cap other lines at that point in the riser to keep things as simple as possible or maybe just run new line up the old dumb waiter shafts that go into the kitchens.

You cannot cap tees, no capped tees allowed on gas lines. Also you cannot run gas lines in the shafts. In general, get a professional. There is no way around this situation.

ellenlourie | 12 years ago

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Even test of gas line is filed under LAA , filing for replacement of gas lines in building will not be accepted by LAA division and will require PE making plans. If permitting will be done by procert then it will take one day to get permit. Inspection appointment will take 2 weeks more or less few days, depending on how busy DOB is. So inspection has to be ordered right when permit obtained. After gas line sign off plumber has to call nat grid to make appointment for gas turn on. If you are in con Ed territory procedure little bit different.

brucef | 12 years ago

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The owner next door owns 100 buildings, and you never know when you might need to ask a favor. It apparently has been this way a long time, so we’ll probably leave it. Prudence is the better part of valor.

mrohrmann | 12 years ago

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Gennady, running new lines should be the easier part, how long does it take and what is rough cost to pull permits to do the work? And how long does it take to schedule DOB to do the inspection (generally)? Any thoughts appreciated. thx!!!

ellenlourie | 12 years ago

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I had seen it in properties where few buildings were combined into one. Your situation is probably opposite, and it used to be one property and then separated. They will need to get new gas service from the street done by utility company, con Ed or nat grid. New service be requested by licensed plumber and there certain procedure how to do it. If your neighbors will not do right thing just notify utility company. They can help resolve this issue.

brucef | 12 years ago

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On a related note, it turns out we have the main feed for an adjoining neighbor coming in from the street into our cellar, then penetrating the foundation and supplying the four family next door. I was hoping it was replaced long ago, but we verified that it is their only source of gas. Any advice?

ellenlourie | 12 years ago

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Eman is right, no flex allowed, period. Also there are new very strict rules on running gas lines. You cannot run them in staircases, routes of egress, inside of fire rated partitions and so on. Just leave those old lines buried in the walls and get new gas lines.

eman134 | 12 years ago

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hate to be a downer, but you cannot run new flex lines up from the basement…it will have to be threaded black pipe filed by a licensed plumber and inspected by the DOB or those locks will never come off

mrohrmann | 12 years ago

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Gennady, thanks. Thats pretty much what I figured. Given that I dont want to have to dig through the walls to get at all the old pipe or figure where they split, running new flex lines up the riser is probably what we’ll do. thanks again.

ellenlourie | 12 years ago

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Here is the deal with gas lines. Nat Grid has nothing to do with gas lines in the building. All they can do if they think you have any gas issues in the building is lock the meter and tell you to hire licensed plumber to get it fixed. Now, even to test exiting gas line plumber has to file limited alteration application with DOB and go trough inspections to get it signed off. If gas line is painted pressure test is for 90 psi for 1/2 hr. if not 3[psi for 1/2 hour. Usually old gas lines will not pass the test. It is cheaper to replace all gas lines than fix it. Good luck

Lurker | 12 years ago

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Tread lightly! In my apt building all of the 18 units have such pipes running to all ceiling fixtures that were ostensibly capped decades ago. However we’ve learned the hard way some weren’t done so properly, and lost gas building wide for 5 months a couple years ago after someone called the fire dept after Coned couldn’t find the source of a gas smell. After testing every line discovered many had gas in them (some stale, some new) and in the end plumbers just lopped off the risers and capped them (while gas was shut off).

mrohrmann | 12 years ago

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Gas runs to each unit with separate meters, so hopefully lines run up riser in kitchen so we can cap other lines at that point in the riser to keep things as simple as possible or maybe just run new line up the old dumb waiter shafts that go into the kitchens. We definitely dont want to get into trying to rip all the lines out, way to big a job and the building is in pretty good shape otherwise. Any other thoughts, experiences, etc. would be much appreciated. thx

Townie | 12 years ago

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Did you have a leak somewhere? No one has gas right now? Best to get professional advice from a trusted plumbing contractor. I’m guessing each unit has it’s own meter so 8+1 house= 9 meters total (gas heat and hot water?) Or just two meters? I’m guessing 4 or 5 story with two sets of 4 risers depending on the layout of the apartments. Might be able to bring risers through hallway accessible space….Lots of plaster repair… Anyway it’s a sizable bullet to bite. What are your long term plans for the building? Kitchen renovations anytime soon? How are the water pipes?