Split System - Heat Pump HVAC - enough by itself

I recently purchased a 3-story 3-family townhouse in Williamsburg where I live with two tenants. The building has an ancient inefficient and problematic oil-powered boiler that provides hot water and steam for a steam radiator system that I want to replace with a gas-powered hot water heater and a separate HVAC system. I’ve been told by some that the newer generation of ductless split system heat pumps provide enough heat in the winter on their own so I would not need a supplemental heat system. I would love to do this so I could pass on the heating costs to the two tenants, and free up space by removing the boiler, the pipes and the radiators. It also seems like a much simpler option to install than putting in a ducted system or a new hot water system with pipes. I’ve been told by others, however, that the split system alone is not sufficient. Please let me know your thoughts on whether a split system would be a good choice. Thanks.

lorimer

in Heating and Air Conditioning 11 years and 8 months ago

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evperry | 11 years and 8 months ago

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I just installed 10 splits. The systems that will give you enough heat cost more that the one that also supply heat. You can size it properly if you do the heat loss calculations. You can also consider a energy efficient setup for your boiler. I installed one a few years back that was 96.5 % efficient and just recently a few that were 93%. They also give you domestic water on demand or you can add a hot water storage tank (not heater) for high demand situations (lots of bathrooms).

Augustiner | 11 years and 8 months ago

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I just took some time to study the ConEd bill. Coned Supply cherges doubled in January from 10 ct/kwH to 20 ct/KwH. With the delivery charges and taxes that comes out to 35 ct/KwH. 2013 the regular all inclusive price was around 28 ct/ KwH e.g. Green Mountain supplies at 12 ct/ kwH. fixed rate, But you´ll still have to pay ConEd for deilivery. So @cmu ´s statement that 6,5 kwh are around $2 sadly is correct

brucef | 11 years and 8 months ago

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Basically what eman said, but one extra consideration. I am partially in the business, and I can tell you first hand, that the feel of warmed air coming out of heat pump evaporator will feel cold. The heat gun says it ain’t so, but to your open hand, it still feels cold, not warm. You are probably used to heat off a radiator which is quite hot. If you have built from scratch a super insulated no leak house, maybe a heat pump. 99% of brownstones or older building, nah.

Augustiner | 11 years and 8 months ago

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@cmu I can´t find the ConEd rates online, they do a good job at hiding them. but 29 ct/kwh seems a bit high. If you take e.g. Verde Energy who advertise at 11 ct/kwh that would be 72 ct/ hour – cheaper than gas in your calculation. Having said that … I´d always prefer a gas fired hot water system with radiators, alone for the fact that it´s absolutely quiet and no fan noise and air circulation. And even more I´d love hydronic radiant floor heating.

eman134 | 11 years and 8 months ago

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Albeit this a reply from a guy who installs boilers and designs hydronic heating systems…I have to agree that unless you are hyperinsulating your house the split system will either be inadequate or really costly to run on those really old days. Stick with a HE boiler and hydronic system with an indirect hot water heater..

cmu | 11 years and 8 months ago

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I’d research this *very carefully.* Unless you have done *extensive insulation and air-leakage control*, brownstones need a lot of heat. Let’s say you have a 150kbtu steam system, which delivers about 85kbtu actual (that’s my setup, and my gas bill is $2800/yr). 85kbtu heatpumps will use roughly 6.5kw/hr of electricity, which (with the Coned raise this month) is $1.90/hr. Compared to roughly $.90 gas for your old system. So best case: your bill is 2x. Heatpumps degrade below 30deg. Eventually they kick in resistance heaters, which use up to 3x times the electricity, just when it’s getting awfully cold. Though Mitsubishi claims theirs runs as a heatpump down below 0 ! I’d be interested in namah’s specs: house size, electricity bill?

namahs | 11 years and 8 months ago

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We have Fujitsu RLS2 units installed in house. We installed 3 units; one in each BR and then a significant larger one in the living room. They do work great when you don’t have a lot of draft in the rooms. For example, in our master bedroom which has a lot of windows and located in front of the house. It is normally pretty cold in that room; the ductless would not do the job. Same with our living room since its so opened. In the kids room, its works wonderfully but the room only has one window. So if you can fixed all the draft in the house, this would probably work pretty well.

hawaiismurf | 11 years and 8 months ago

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Its a good choice. They are very efficient and provide enough heat, provided they are sized correctly. Available in a variety of capacities to help size it right. To really be efficient, you may wish to invest in new windows and do some air sealing and insulation.