National Grid shut off our gas. Advice?

Hello all: My partner and I bought a flip two-family brownstone last fall, and since then we’ve struggled mightily to convince Nat’l Grid to install a gas meter for the kitchen in our garden apartment. There were legal issues, permitting issues, code issues, all kindsa issues. On September 4 we succeeded! Nat’l Grid installed a meter! Success! Happiness! Except! While the Nat’l Grid fellow was kicking around the basement, he discovered that our hot water heaters vented exhaust into an unsealed chimney. He locked our main gas meter and told us he’d only unlock it once the chimney was sealed. The Nat’l Grid guy also told us our heater’s intake pipe went nowhere — it dead-ended on a wall. He told us to get it fixed, but said the return of our gas was *not* contingent upon doing so. I made the guy repeat this three times, because I know to be skeptical of Nat’l Grid. No, he said — fix the chimney issue and the gas will come back. Well. We finally got the chimney fixed — we actually replaced it entirely; we had to get a whole new chimney up the back of the building — and called Nat’l Grid to return. Which they did, yesterday. And the new Nat’l Grid guy pointed out the heater’s intake pipe and said we’d have to get it connected to fresh air before he could turn the gas back on. So — which is it? Was the first guy full of it? Was the second guy? Should I have slipped him $100? The other, bigger question is this: What should I do? My own contractor *can* do the basic work here. Connect a bunch of pipes, vent ’em into the yard. But it’s not her area of expertise. Are there any rules or regulations that must be observed? Do you know anything about what Nat’l Grid is looking for in an intake pipe? I so appreciate your help. Can’t wait to have a hot shower. Thanks much, – BKT

bkthorp

in Heating and Air Conditioning 11 years and 1 month ago

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daveinbedstuy | 11 years and 1 month ago

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What slopefarm said. Most agents are clueless.

slopefarm | 11 years and 1 month ago

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Agreed, rh. If this was an issue that was visible on a thorough inspection and not behind the walls, it is a really good question for inspector. Agent has no incentive or obligation,, let alone expertise, to bring up these kinds of issues.

rh | 11 years and 1 month ago

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Why blame the real estate agent who may not know what they’re looking at? Better question is: Who was your inspector??

HouseNut | 11 years and 1 month ago

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We had money in escrow for the seller to change the C of O. The language was black and white, yet it still took a year and $15K in legal fees to have the escrow released. So it’s not always an easy answer either.

bedstuytownhouse | 11 years and 1 month ago

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And if your agent was worth their commission, they would have protected you better than they did in negotiating the sale.

bedstuytownhouse | 11 years and 1 month ago

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My sincere sympathies for the situation. Who was your real estate agent??? A seasoned real estate investor friend told us to never, ever buy a renovated home without money in escrow for a year to cover shortcuts that come back to haunt the buyer.

Master Plvmber | 11 years and 1 month ago

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“And the new Nat’l Grid guy pointed out the heater’s intake pipe and said we’d have to get it connected to fresh air before he could turn the gas back on.” What are we talking about here? Make-up air for the room or are we talking about a space/water heating appliance that uses a direct air intake pipe? There are rules governing both and they’re different.

cate | 11 years and 1 month ago

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Wow! You have my sympathy. What a crazy setup from a flipper. I guess your building inspector didn’t catch this?

eman134 | 11 years and 1 month ago

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Get a competent plumber or hvac to do this. Two things are necessary for combustion: intake air and an appropriate vent. At first you had neither, now you have one out of two.The Natgrid guy is doing you a favor by forcing you to do the right thing so you do not die in your sleep, And the idea that you think that you can bribe your way out of this is especially offensive, and just plain stupid

rh | 11 years and 1 month ago

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You purchased a flip or you intend on flipping? Either way, do the right thing for everyone’s sake. No, you shouldn’t have bribed him and if that’s not your contractor’s area of expertise, she shouldn’t deal with it either. Look, I’m the queen of under the radar renovations, but I agree with resident2\. Two things you don’t mess with are gas and electric. Just get a licensed plumber who knows what they’re doing and the problem will be resolved in no time.

dorkofwindsor | 11 years and 1 month ago

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unfortunately you are at the mercy of different people’s judgement calls. you took care of the most egregious issue, and i agree that the intake is secondary but still needs to be addressed. Im not an expert but AFAIK the mechanical code has requirements for these types of things. For example in The NYC Mechanical Code, Ch 1, Section MC 101 General: 401.5 Opening location. Outside air exhaust and intake openings shall be located a minimum of 10 feet (3048 mm) from lot lines or buildings on the same lot. Where openings front on a street or public way, the distance shall be measured to the centerline of the street or public way. Outdoor intakes for high-rise office buildings having occupied floors located more than 75 feet (22 860 mm) above the lowest level of fire department vehicle access serving spaces above the second story and serving spaces greater than 10, 000 square feet (929 square meters) of floor area shall be located at least 20 feet (6096 mm) above ground level, at least 30 feet (9144 mm) from exhaust outlets and other exhaust discharges, and at least 20 feet (6096 mm) from areas that may collect vehicular exhaust, such as off street loading bays. Exception: Group R-3. 401.5.1 Intake openings. Mechanical and gravity outside air intake openings, shall be located a minimum of 20 feet (6096 mm) from any hazardous or noxious contaminant such as vents, chimneys, plumbing vents, streets, alleys, parking lots and loading docks, except as otherwise specified in this code. Where a source of contaminant is located within 20 feet (6096 mm) of an intake opening, such opening shall be located a minimum of 2 feet (610 mm) below the contaminant source. An outdoor air intake opening with gross area of more than 144 square inches (.0929 m2) shall be provided with fire dampers and smoke dampers, or combined fire and smoke dampers when such opening is located as follows: 1\. Less than 30 feet (9144 mm) above grade. 2\. Less than 30 feet (9144 mm) in any direction from any opening in another building. 3\. Less than 15 feet (4572 mm) from a lot line. 4\. Less than 50 feet (15 240 mm) above and less than 50 feet (15 240 mm) in any direction from a roof constructed of combustible material or a building in which the exterior walls are constructed wholly or partly of wood. Exceptions: ??????????????????????????????????????? 1\. Smoke dampers shall not be required for outdoor air intake openings installed in any construction required to have a fire resistance rating that is less than two hours. 2\. Smoke dampers shall not be required for outdoor air intake openings of systems greater than 15,000 cfm (7.1 m3/s) which are provided with smoke dampers in accordance with Chapter 6 of this code and arranged so as to not introduce smoke into the building or space in which the equipment is located. As you can see (and i dont’ even know what kind of system you have) , it may be wise to consult a professional.

resident2 | 11 years and 1 month ago

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Carbon Monoxide is a serious issue with gas venting. Get a licensed plumber to look it all over once and for all. That way you can feel comfortable go to sleep at night and waking up the next morning!