Mitsubishi H2i Heat Pump Does the Job in Brooklyn

I finally pulled the trigger and installed a Mitsubishi H2i heat pump to deliver heat to two floors of my limestone (aprox 2,000 sq/ft.) The installation was completed the Friday before the 2nd biggest snow storm ever in NYC. If all goes well, I’ll add another to do the garden floor rental unit. The good news– it works. With proper tuning I think I’m gonna save a lot of dosh. The bad news– the heat is kinda like The feeling you get in a Luke-warm bath. We have not been down to single digit temperatures yet… So the jury is still out. I know there has been a lot of talk about heat pump efficiency and effectiveness on this forum. So I’m gonna keep some detailed records on “real world” functionality and report back in a few weeks.

jjq

in Heating and Air Conditioning 9 years and 8 months ago

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deancollins | 9 years and 8 months ago

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thanks for posting this. look forward to updates.

jjq | 9 years and 8 months ago

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Thanks for all comments. I will start another thread for performance and running cost info later today. Sleestack- I agree, the Mitsubishi nomenclature is confusing… Best as I can determine the CityMulti is an H2i system designed for commercial use because of its large size (BTUs not physical size.) It will operate at 100% efficiency (produce rated BTUs) at 0 degrees F, while the M-series (like we have installed) will only give 100% efficiency only down to 5 degrees F. I believe the CityMulti units also start at 60,000Btu and can connect to more than 6 air handlers out of the box. The top of the line M-Series Units can only connect up to 6 air handlers tops.

sleestack | 9 years and 8 months ago

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jjq, thanks for posting about this, and good luck with everything. Can you or someone else here explain the difference between the Mitsubishi City Multi and H2i systems? We have a Mitsubishi City Multi system that was installed a few years ago and is our sole source of heat. It has worked well, even during the misery of last year’s “polar vortex.” In hindsight, I would have added radiant floor heating in a few areas of the house to supplement the City Multi, but that definitely falls into the category of “nice to have.” The house is perfectly acceptable with the City Multi alone.

kenzdesigns | 9 years and 8 months ago

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Looks great, I just installed a similar system in my 2-story brick. 48K btu M2i heat pump with a 24K btu ceiling recessed air handler on the main level and 3 wall warts in the bedrooms upstairs, and a 9K wall wart in the basement. Just got it up and running about a week ago, so far the heating capacity has been totally sufficient. Love being able to turn the heat way down in the rest of the house when only one room is being used. Would love to know what your power consumption looks like. How many kWh do you expect this system to draw per month for the winter?

GreenThinker | 9 years and 8 months ago

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Just noticed Concentric vent/air system, Vents from the top, sucks in fresh air from the bottom of the cone. The way they made that U bend can cause the exhaust to be sucked right into the fresh air intake.

GreenThinker | 9 years and 8 months ago

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Really, no one is questioning the fact this thing is installed on 4×4 pieces of wood, no isolation rubber pads. The metal beams don’t look to be on a masonry base either.

jjq | 9 years and 8 months ago

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I won’t install Nests on my parlor level. But looking at it now, after the installation upstairs, I’m gonna test them, keep good records and compare. I’m a data driven guy! See above post on why we went with Nest in first place. Also Nest is pulling power from air handler with transformer installed.

steam_man | 9 years and 8 months ago

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My advice. Optimism is not going to make things better, it is going to cost you money in the long run. Get rid of it and install the right equipment. Plus Nest is junk. They fail, they have to recieve “software updates” WTF is that?!!!, and I would love to know where it’s getting it’s power from. Fancy packaging and marketing. I’d never install Nest in my own home.

jjq | 9 years and 8 months ago

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Yes I agree Nest is wrong for the job…. That was all me. My bad. My installer did suggest otherwise. Or can I blame it on my wife.. Wink! The original idea to use the Nest came from the idea I wanted to integrate the Mitsubishi units into a SAMSUNG home automation system (video, security, smoke/carbon detectors) … The Samsung SmartThings system can integrate The Mitsubishi products through the nest.

jjq | 9 years and 8 months ago

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Steam_man, I don’t think we are saying anything different here…. I DO understand that the Scheduling in the nest is not REALLY beneficiaL to the inverter system… I’m chancing it that the Mitsubishi thermostat interface will NOT cycle between the two stages too often. This is probably wishful thinking…. And I bow to your experience. But hey, the deed is done, I’m keeping a very close eye on and thing and staying optimistic!

jjq | 9 years and 8 months ago

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Mr positive– It’s kinda hard to explain.. But I’ll give it a go… With an inverter driven heat pump, the unit runs all the time but at LOW AMPERAGE. With a conventional system, the system cycles on and off according to the temp you set. All this cycling uses more energy at HIGH AMPERAGE. Basically letting the computer (inverter) control the system can use 2-4 less energy than a conventional system– BUT ITS COMPUTER DRIVEN NOT HUMAN DRIVEN. The nest basically commands the outdoor unit in an inefficient manner– IE: an hourly on off schedule, turns the outdoor unit on and off more frequently using more amperage. Does that make sense?

steam_man | 9 years and 8 months ago

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When the third party thermostat calls for 1st stage of heat, the thermostat interface will change the indoor unit mode into heat and using a patent pending algorithm to optimize variable capacity. When the third party thermostat calls for 2nd stage of heat, the thermostat interface will change the indoor unit mode into heat and ramp the indoor unit to full capacity. In other words, at higher load requirements you lose the main reason for installing an inverter, it’s ability to “modulate” in order to maintain a nice even temperature. Your system will be running full blast until the stage 2 conditions are satisfied and then it will drop back to variable capacity. It may be easier to imagine this as a window AC running in Economy mode. $$$$$ no bueno.

steam_man | 9 years and 8 months ago

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jjq, With all due respect to your installer, I could have done that with Mitsubishi OEM equipment, no PAC44… T-stat interface, no crappy Nest thermostat and at half the price. Also, ductboard? Really?

randolph | 9 years and 8 months ago

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i guess i don’t understand why you would want to be able to do that- isn’t the thermostat there to be on a set program and turn on and off based on time or temperature or whatever you wanted?

jjq | 9 years and 8 months ago

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The Nest is pretty cool… I’m not certain that all the data it creates will work with an inverter driven system…. But I can turn my air handlers on and off via my mobile phone! Wink!

jjq | 9 years and 8 months ago

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About Nest… Yes I agree.. But the deed is done, units bought and installed and running. Upon reflection, the Nests’ CORE functionality (i.e.: cycling unit in HUMAN SCHEDULING HAM-HANDED TERMS vs COMPUTER CONTROLLED MICRO TERMS) will defeat the inverter functionality on the outdoor unit. Im hoping alls not lost… By my reading of the Mitsubishi PAC-US444CN thermostat interface literature (two stage heating interface): 1) when the Nest calls for stage 1 heat the inverter functionality is delivered through the PAC-US444CN-1 2) when the Nest calls for stage 2 heat the interface just runs the outdoor unit full-on, then cycles back to stage-1 Anyway, that’s my reading of the literature, but I’ve been around enough to understand there is a difference between real world functionality and literature. I know just enough to be dangerous… Wink! Steam_man… Can you chime in on this?

randolph | 9 years and 8 months ago

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i don’t get the big deal with Nest thermostats, people like them because you can control/monitor from your iphone?

steam_man | 9 years and 8 months ago

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Nest should NOT be used with these systems. It’s a little technical to get into but there are much better ways to get the functionality of the Nest (that which would work with a mini-spit system anyway) without using the Nest.

jjq | 9 years and 8 months ago

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2 floors, 4 zones, aprox 350 sq/ft per zone. I’m not heating the hallways. Top floor units (9000 and 12000 btu) installed in cockloft with (very) short 24-36 inch insulated 1.5″ ductboard ductwork– directly venting into main target rooms through ceiling vents. I have not installed parlor level air handlers yet. 36,000btu cool, 45,000btu heat Mitsubishi MXZ-4C36NAHZ inverter heat pump with Nest3 two stage heat controls. (Nests may actually cripple the inverter functionality– I’m still trying to determine this.)