Installing mini splits without filing permit

Hi all I have a plan to install 4 mini-split units in my apt. I own the top floor unit in a condo brownstone, and I also own the roof deck on top of it. Plan is to mount the condenser onto the roof deck structure, and penetrate the roof to run pipes through it. The AC company (recommended by many on Brownstoner) tells me that most people don’t bother with filing a permit with DOB. I would love any advice on whether I can just go ahead, or if I do I risk getting violations that will create problems in the future if I want to sell the apartment. Should I delay the project and file for the proper permits?

Curly

in Heating and Air Conditioning 9 years and 9 months ago

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concord | 9 years and 9 months ago

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The thing with permits is that you will be in trouble if something happens and then it is discovered the work was done without a permit. Your insurance will deny coverage, etc. For mini-splits you need an “equipment use’ permit for the heat exchanger…note also that a “clear path? for firemen is required on the roof! You cannot block it… Consult and architect…not just anonymous forum members (no matter how well intentioned…)

steam_man | 9 years and 9 months ago

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cmu, That misinformed comment is disheartening to say the least. Learn a little bit about electricity before you make comments that people may take to seriously.

cmu | 9 years and 9 months ago

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One place I lived in had the refrig connected with about all the lights in the apt. Many would briefly flicker when it turned on. I never considered it a fire hazard (though it may have been hard on the motor.) That’s what circuit breakers are for, to protect from overloads. So if the breaker doesn’t trip, there’s no danger.

steam_man | 9 years and 9 months ago

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dork, You have a dangerous situation which can cause a fire. Please get this taken care of as soon as possible. -S.

resident2 | 9 years and 9 months ago

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The thing with permits and selling is that many buyers attorneys will want you to sign that all work done in the condo had permits for it (as if that really proves anything?!). They do this just to bust balls most of the time and to make themselves look good to their client as if they are protecting their innocent buyer. Obviously in a market like this if you have a buyer with a ball busting attorney you move onto the next buyer, but in a slower market if you need to sell, it can be tough. That said; getting permits for everything that requires a permit is insane, the DOB will come to a grinding halt and all it does for the owner is get a raise in your Real Estate taxes for “improving” your property. Make sure your electrician in licensed and that you put all the stuff on the roof on steel beams, so that in the case of a roof fire it does not come crashing through the roof on top of firemen..

juliaalexis | 9 years and 9 months ago

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I don’t have anything to offer as far as the mini splits go but I did want to offer a warning in regards to AngiesList… I just went through a certain fiery hell with a contractor that was highly rated with over three hundred reviews there and they were absolutely useless when it came to the complaint resolution process. The contractor lied about his license status and several over things, did a terrible job, and has caused thousands of dollars of damage to my property and AngiesList has done nothing. As long as the contractor replies to the AngiesList complaint, they don’t actually have to do anything to make amends. Seriously. They just said that they did not like my proposed solution and AngiesList closed the case. So don’t necessarily trust the reviews on that site and certainly don’t rely on AngiesList to help you out if any trouble arises.

dorkofwindsor | 9 years and 9 months ago

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Curly, it seems to me many electricians hate permits. Understandable since they take a certain payday and turn it into a question mark. I am in the same boat as you – i have an old service line that my guy couldn’t exactly tell me how many amps just by looking at the wire – maybe 100 amps was the guess. (this is a line you may not be able to see but my box was not demarcated with a clip for some reason). But i have meters rated for much lower (a 60 and a 20?) so the meters definitely don’t determine the actual service amps coming in. My understanding is that the elec co doesn’t like overtaxed service lines because it can stress the transformer in the street. These are all from conversations with electricians, FWIW< i'm just a homeowner. In all fairness, when my compressor (5-ton roof package) switches on, the lights do dim across several of my (new, upgraded) electrical panels, and on all floors. Its high on my to-do list to get this checked out - I may need to find out if i need to upgrade my service line. Its a minimal flicker and no breakers ever get tripped, but i notice it, and you should consider that this is a possibility after the job is done.

daveinbedstuy | 9 years and 9 months ago

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The only issue you would have with a sale is if there is an actual VIOLATION issued upon inspection by the DOB, which you don’t have to let them in to do so.

Curly | 9 years and 9 months ago

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Thanks for your reply, that’s helpful. I instructed the electrician (and contractor) to do everything to code. Although electrician does not want to file with city because he thinks they may deny, as I am installing a 40A AC system on a 60A supply. I think my contractor is legit (definitely not cheap!) and they have very good reviews on Angie’s list. My main concern is the lack of permit causing problems when I try to sell the apartment in the future.

dorkofwindsor | 9 years and 9 months ago

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I’ll be honest – most people do not get permits for A/C even though it is technically required. I usually like following the rules but for this seem seemed onerous. Make sure you have a licensed electrician. Make sure the people at least know the code – not a cheap moonlighter. While you need to put the condensers on steel beams when installing on roof, many times there are supposed to be stairs installed on top of that and most people skip that. If you’re doing it via a reputable contractor, it is a legitimate concern as to whether to get a permit given the current state of the DOB. And i think the key to avoiding problems is getting a good contractor. (Even then you should still monitor roof penetrations for the first few months for small leaks).