Yearly costs of maintaining a brownstone
This question has been asked in the past but I don’t see any recent posts about it, and I’d like 2021 info if possible.
My husband and I are considering buying a recently renovated brownstone in Crown Heights. We have lived in a coop for 10 years.
I am concerned that there are monthly or yearly costs we may not be aware of, and that we won’t be able to actually afford living there.
I would appreciate if some brownstone owners could outline what they spend per month or year on utilities and expenses.
jjvghzgcbtzyfiyw
in General Discussion 3 years and 6 months ago
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21 replies
cate | 3 years and 6 months ago
In my experience: Redo front concrete $2,000-$3,000. Add garden hose bib (if supply line already nearby): $850. Freshen up (paint) wrought iron fence: $2,000.
cobblehillhome | 3 years and 6 months ago
@Brownstonecurious – you sound like me 8 months ago! We bought a renovated townhouse from a developer. (Tip: Try to negotiate at least 6-12 months to a year of repairs done by them.) We found a leak in a toilet and new roof, plus some electrical work that needed to be fix when our W/D went on. There’s going to be things you’ll discover since no one has lived in the house since the reno.
Expenses we didn’t think about (some we did) until we moved in:
– blinds/curtains for each window (most aren’t standard sizes)
– closet systems, even getting someone to hang a rod + shelf
– power tools to get the above work done 🙂
– landscaping, if you have a yard — nice planters $50-100/each, plants can run you ~$500-$1000, gardening tools
Short term:
– after all the rain this year we’re going to spend $20-25k to fix to our backyard to better manage storm water
Mid-term:
– custom storage solution – our kitchen is missing a true pantry but a DIY-solution with standard cabinets won’t work in the space ($8K)
Long term plans:
– redo the front concrete, add an extension for a garde n hose up front, freshen up the rod-iron fence, add a security gate to the garden unit. All about $50k total, maybe more
(We’re very excited to own a house in Brooklyn so want to make this place feel like home. I know a lot of people may think some of the improvements listed above are not a good return on their investment. )
cobblehillhome | 3 years and 6 months ago
@Brownstonecurious – you sound like me 8 months ago! We bought a renovated townhouse from a developer. (Tip: Try to negotiate at least 6-12 months to a year of repairs done by them.) We found a leak in a toilet and new roof, plus some electrical work that needed to be fix when our W/D went on. There’s going to be things you’ll discover since no one has lived in the house since the reno.
Expenses we didn’t think about (some we did) until we moved in:
– blinds/curtains for each window (most aren’t standard sizes)
– closet systems, even getting someone to hang a rod + shelf
– power tools to get the above work done 🙂
– landscaping, if you have a yard — nice planters $50-100/each, plants can run you ~$500-$1000, gardening tools
Short term:
– after all the rain this year we’re going to spend $20-25k to fix to our backyard to better manage storm water
Mid-term:
– custom storage solution – our kitchen is missing a true pantry but a DIY-solution with standard cabinets won’t work in the space ($8K)
Long term plans:
– redo the front concrete, add an extension for a garde n hose up front, freshen up the rod-iron fence, add a security gate to the garden unit. All about $50k total, maybe more
(We’re very excited to own a house in Brooklyn so want to make this place feel like home. I know a lot of people may think some of the improvements listed above are not a good return on their investment. )
helen40
in General Discussion 3 years and 6 months ago
Beware the blown in insulation in the cockloft without a very good roof. We had insulation blown in about 20 years ago during a massive renovation. Since then, roof leaks and other work has created a giant mess of rotting insulation and other nasty stuff in the cockloft. Last year, we had the roof replaced and new insulation placed on top of the plywood roof deck. This fall, we had work done on the top floor and removed tons of the old insulation, much of which had broken loose, was damaged, wet and rotting.
A contractor or two have told me “insulate above the roof or below, but not both.” I think its a good rule of thumb.
cate | 3 years and 6 months ago
DDSR, that sounds like a decent number considering the size of the building and that it’s standalone. You must be doing something right.
Lurker | 3 years and 6 months ago
Depending what you pay for heat and how leaky your house is, cock loft insulation is easy to do and vent to prevent issues. We had it done and they go up on the roof, cut 2 holes in your roof and put in a blower and literally fill up the cockloft with fiberglass or cellulose, takes a few hours. And then they put vents where the holes were to allow air flow and prevent condensation that can rot your beams etc. We did it and I can’t say I notice a difference but I haven’t checked my bills to compare. It was something like $3k for 1000 sq feet of space and I ‘m not sure it’ll ever pay off, but for someone paying more for heating it probably would
Guest User | 3 years and 6 months ago
We beat everyone! Last year we paid about $4,500, including the maintenance contract, oil heating in a 3,900 sf detached masonry/frame 1900s townhouse. We spent part of the season without tenants though so this year will be worse. We usually spend between $5,000-$6,000 depending. We had insulation blown in years ago, which I heard doesn’t do much, but our bills were worse before.
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 3 years and 6 months ago
I think ALL cocklofts are a similar mess. That didn’t prevent us from having cellulose insulation blown in 40+ years ago. Mushroom vents are enough to eliminate water vapor. Our heating bills went down a lot after we had this done. The only problem was a water leak because the installer didn’t seal the seams in the metal vents, but that was easy to fix (and to avoid if you know it’s a potential problem).
cate | 3 years and 6 months ago
AFAIK our attic isn’t suitable for insulation. For one thing, it’s a mess of dust, debris and electrical cable, among other things, and there are sections that aren’t really accessible. I also worry about moisture retention and mold.
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 3 years and 6 months ago
Cate,
Why no roof insulation? That’s often the first step people take. Is it more difficult to do in a wood frame row house than in masonry one?
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 3 years and 6 months ago
FWIW my yearly cost for natural gas is slightly over $2,000. That’s for heating, with a forced hot air furnace, hot water, a gas dryer and cooking. My house is a single family limestone attached on both sides, with a well-insulated roof and (fairly old) triple-glazed Windows. It’s about 2,900 square feet.
cate | 3 years and 6 months ago
Last year, we paid approximately $3,000 for heat and hot water for a 2,700 square foot two-family attached on both sides and insulated in front and rear (but not the roof). The heat system is an oil boiler with hot water radiators.
cate | 3 years and 6 months ago
Our rule of thumb is we plan for an average $3,000 a year in repairs (some years it is nothing, other years more) and we also have a large sum sitting in the bank in case something crazy happens and, say, all the heating pipes have to be replaced. You could set aside $20,000 to $40,000 to start and contribute $300 a month to the fund, similar to a reserve fund and maintenance payments in a coop.
jjvghzgcbtzyfiyw | 3 years and 6 months ago
This is all so helpful – thanks everyone!
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 6 months ago
if the envelope is in good condition you will see less cost. expenses we have HAD to tackle have been maintaining the roof and repointing of brick work as needed (chimney; this stuff HAS to be done or the cost multiples fast). some plumbing leaks which i tackle myself. and some work to the roof, which i again do myself.
i like what bergenst said ($2-3 sq foot) and i had thoughts on this but could not put it into a number that might make sense for a home. i once managed the repair and maintenance of an older 89,000 square foot masonry building with a flat roof and older steam boilers and related pipes and our budget for repairs to steam lines and repairs to the masonry (which had not been maintained as it should; the joints in the caps had been let to go to waste and water got in; keep after stuff like this and this is stuff any homeowner can do before it becomes something else) and even the roof (which was newer) ran $270,000 (my ideal budget would have been 350k).
looking at what i say above, in a building that had not had any plumbing updated and they h ad let the envelop go bad, $3.50 a square foot would be ideal but almost $3.00 will work (for a few years until things are in better shape). in a better kept building, under$2.00?
Bergan also says stuff can happen fast so it is better to save. in most buildings i had worked, not unlike many homeowners, they did not have a contingency fund. However, at the condo association i worked for they did have a small one. i cannot recall the formula for saving nor numbers, but if you can save $1.00 per sq foot, you would be ahead of most commercial buildings i had worked in. and any articles written by pros said that HOA’s should be saving the annual pro rata cost of any big ticket items based on the expected remaining useful life. if you can do that, you will be in great shape.
olnqydhyugz | 3 years and 6 months ago
When we bought our home earlier this year the home inspector said a good rule of thumb was $2-3/sf/year for maintenance and some years don’t need any of it and others you need many multiples of it. From experience we have gone years without needing any major maintenance and then a pipe leak cost $5,000 to repair and the next year the roof central HVAC had to be replaced to the tune of $20k. So it’s worth saving every year because you will have major issues at some point.
helen40
in General Discussion 3 years and 6 months ago
How big is your house and how well insulated? CAC, window units or none? Gas or oil furnace? Hot water on demand or hot water tank? You should start your discussion with the current owner/developer and see if they have any historical records.
For my owner occupied triplex over a garden rental (with new roof and new skylights (2020); gas furnace, hot water heater, CAC (2002) we pay:
KeySpan $117/mo for heat, hot water, drier gas, cooking gas and gas grill
Con Ed $125-$350/mo depending on AC use
Water and Sewer $300 +/- per quarter
Insurance $160/mo
Add Internet access.
Your mileage will vary. And as others have noted, there will be both planned and unplanned maintenance.
ceci | 3 years and 6 months ago
Think annual property taxes, home owners ins., water usage, heating costs and electric bill. Also, consider condition of furnace and pipes in home before u purchase that can really add up your expenses!!!! No one can give u a number on expenses that’s pretty subjective,but, u can get an idea by doing the math!!! Good luck!!!
jjvghzgcbtzyfiyw | 3 years and 6 months ago
Thanks – do you have any numbers you can share? For a first-time brownstone owner, nothing is easy to predict!