Wood Panel(exterior)

[Facade 3](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:dgny:facade3.jpg.jpg)
We are trying to rejuvenate our facade, the wood panels. We’d like to keep the same look, same color. The painting company suggests to use solid stain like paint to make over the stained area, but the colors are not similar or close to our current tone. We are thinking to use IPE oil (semi-transparent) to stain it, left by the builder, but the painting company said it’s light stain, not adequate to cover the stained spots/lines. Solid stain would make wood grains invisible, and it would not look like woods. like to get some advice as we have no experience about wood maintenance and what could be the result of choices.

tommysampson1979

in General Discussion 2 years and 2 months ago

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justinromeu26 | 2 years and 2 months ago

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For anyone reading this, in the strict sense with exterior products, Dork is correct. i do not work with Ipe and have no intention to so i am not going to confirm this, but i know an interior stain that will stain difficult woods (i do not know if there is an exterior version). i am purposely NOT saying what kind of stain it is because if someone were to try it, it would have no UV protection and would fail (it is a lousy product at its best when used inside and is only used as need be and must be covered). Even with the oils like penofin that Dork mentions over it, it would probably fail. even with a uv coat like spar varnish, it would probably fail. the only way around something like this is to either use the penofin (which may not sort out the irregularities in the color of the wood) or begin calling manufacturers and talking to their tech teams. my guess is there is a way around this but it could take two hours of phone calls with experts and enough experience with this subject and competitor’s products to throw questions at them.

also, because the op’s wood looks so irregular in color, i am thinking someone did something else to it once before and it has “failed” in spots.

for those wondering what gives a home inspector the right to comment on this subject, i am a wood contractor and most of my projects involve exterior staining and coating.

dorkofwindsor | 2 years and 2 months ago

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i posted in this thread but it did not seem to work. standard for ipe is penifins oil for hardwood. the unique density of ipe makes coatings and other stains not a great solution. second choice is Ipe oil. you may not get more than 3 years out of these for any solution. The “new” look for Ipe is not a low maintenance one over the long haul.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 2 months ago

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Riverhead lumber carries cabot. I see it there. I think no matter what op does, she will want to oil over the stain and i think cabots is straight stain.

Op, maybe staining with something like their solid will even the colors out.

Also, just because something is a solid stain does not mean maybe it cannot be thinned a little to get the right balance. We often thin stains with whatever the base is and cabots will most certainly be oil (so mineral spirits) read the label. If need be, call the manufacturer. I said it above, i call all of these manufacturers all the time (i called waterlox today to see if their varnish can go over epifanes).

I know, i said this a few weeks ago on here. It is hard to experiment when you have to buy stuff. If you have a shop with a dozen colors sitting around, it is easy.

When i used to have trouble with colors, i used to go to charlie at abbot paint. But he is gone and his replacement is useless and i don’t think they carry outdoor stains/products.

kassie319 | 2 years and 2 months ago

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Have you ever used Cabots, Steve? I’ve used the solid stain lot on fences and trellis work and it’s held up well over the years.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 2 months ago

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And i just looked. Ben moore is the arbor coat. That product is worth exploring even though it is solid. Fyi: i have been using ben moore for decades and still call their tech team (i talk to chris) once a year to ask them questions about altering, tinting, thinning and applying their product.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 2 months ago

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Ok, here is the thing about playing with stains and finishes. You have to have some understanding about how the various ones behave and how they behave under varying conditions and on different wood species and how they respond after the grain is open by sanding. It also helps to know how oils work as opposed to stains and clear coats. And different oils do different things. Before someone can start talking about another product such as sikkens or trying to darken wood with say a stain and overcoating with an oil, it would be a good idea to be conversant in all of this. THEN, it is probably ok to take a couple pieces of wood of the same species and begin running samples or experimenting.

If this person is worth his salt and wants to learn and is committed to this and you to him, he should be at this point be ready to invest some time in this and begin running samples. If he is not intested in doing that, then either he has no interest in learning or the job is financially not worth it to him. I have spend decades learning about finishes (i stained my fi rst crown molding under my mother’s critical eye in 1976, minwax) and have doneva lot of experimentation and have made a lot of mistakes and sanded a lot of stain off a lot of wood – but that is the ONLY way to learn. I went through 29 two and three coat stain samples to get the right color for one job last year. That is how it is done.

tommysampson1979 | 2 years and 2 months ago

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We have IPE wood in the exterior facade in the pic. Benjamin Moore’s solid stain from the painting company and no other option. The person does not know it well

tommysampson1979 | 2 years and 2 months ago

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We have IPE wood in the exterior facade in the pic. Benjamin Moore’s solid stain from the painting company and no other option. The person does not know it well

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 2 months ago

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Gee jh, i am glad you capitalized Dutch otherwise i might not know how to interpret it.

JohnHancock | 2 years and 2 months ago

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Sikkens is a good old Dutch paint company, specializing in exterior paints. It used to rain a lot over there…

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 2 months ago

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When you google sikkens, ppg comes up in the results. I would explore.ppg as well as sikkens. Ppg is a very good name.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 2 months ago

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A man was using a product on some wood down the road from my house a few years back. He said it was a product from or developed or used in california. Something makes me think it was made by sikkens. Try marine stores for sikkens. I think of it as a marine product because i see it next to the varnish at albertson marine in greenport. I have not seen it locally.

Also, take a look at jamestown distributors website. They are a marine supply and may have products besides varnishes for topside work. I am thinking oils. I order my varnishes from jamestown.

cate | 2 years and 2 months ago

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In California, everyone uses a clear, matte exterior protective wood coating for redwood houses. I don’t know what the product is but it exists. It is not spar varnish. It lasts for 10 or 20 years, then must be reapplied.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 2 months ago

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most stains are made to be semi transparent so one can see the grain. the opaque stuff is not what i would consider stain.

it sounds to me like the people you are talking to do not have a lot of experience staining or you would be able to ask them this and they would tell you. they would also be able to tell you what the challenges would be to getting a uniform color up there and how successful they might or might not be. of course the way to go is to sand it all out and start anew but something tells me that some of that wood is so light that to try to darken it like the others, you will be having to stain it apart from the others with its own, darker stain.

exterior stains are sort of limited. look at products sold more in the suburbs. riverhead lumber in Mineola has a bunch of exterior product at the rear of the store. many of these exterior products are oils with dye in them, me thinks, as opposed to straight up stain.

look at product from the boat yards called “sikkens”. i have not tried them. i am not sure if they make a stain that is meant to be left exposed (not top coated).

look at penofin. i think penofin is a dyed oil so it offers protection. i think.

i want to know what the “solid stain like paint” is. i want to know if i guessed it right that someone is trying to sell you interior product for outside. you have to be very careful these days with who you hire.

do not use clear “coats” up there either. i said already varnish is no good. also General Finishes 405. We used that one for a few short years and stopped very fast. it does not last in the sun and was a big let down (and is expensive). any clear coat that sits on the wood will have to be maintained.

The people you are considering to use on your building should be able to talk to you just like i am here. they may not know everything but if they have any experience at all, they KNOW WHAT WILL NOT WORK from the get go and from there they will be left with a handful of products that they ALREADY KNOW THE NAMES OF EVEN IF THEY HAVE NOT USED THEM. You do not want the front of the building to be their guinea pig.

tommysampson1979 | 2 years and 2 months ago

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do we know if there is something/stain/oil between semi transparent and opaque?

tommysampson1979 | 2 years and 2 months ago

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do we know if there is something/stain/oil between semi transparent and opaque?

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 2 months ago

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bob, that is what i am talking about with uv protection. Spar varnish. but spar varnish will peel eventually. it must be maintained.

RobertGMarvin

in General Discussion 2 years and 2 months ago

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Wouldn’t spar varnish work?

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 2 months ago

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also, op, be mindful that interior products will fail up there in the sun. fast. so be sure they are using products made for outside. be careful with painting contractors. many of them these days do not know how to prep and paint surfaces inside houses let alone stain things outside. as a contractor, i would know questions to ask them to see if they are who they say they are (ask them for the brand of that stain that goes on like paint and look it up on-line. if it is an interior product, do not do any business with them. as far as i am concerned, if a product says it is interior and they are using it exterior, they are committing consumer fraud – unless they warn the customer in writing).

in so far as using interior stains outside, that is only possible if they are covered with UV protection (varnishes) and that is not what you want to do up there because that will eventually peel. this is why someone is recommending oils with color in them. these are made for outside. you really have to look for product made for outside for decks and colors will prob ably be limited for that.

i am a contractor as well which is where i am pulling my information from. not as a home inspector.