Wood burning stove inside historic fireplace?
Has anyone around here done this? Our fireplace is wonderful but needs work to bring it back to safe, functioning condition — notably a rebuild of the firebox (with firebrick), parging of smoke chamber, and damper installation. The high price tag of this has us looking at our options, especially since despite all of this, our flue is in tremendous shape despite its age.
The efficiency of a wood burning stove, as well as the cleanliness and the self-contained burn has us considering getting one to insert within our oversized firebox, hooking it up to the flue and calling it a day. Has anyone else done this?
colonialrevival
in General Discussion 4 years and 2 months ago
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restorationcontractor | 4 years and 2 months ago
@Colonialrevival, I think you were at the very least quite harsh with Steve, he was only trying to help you.
While his replies may be long winded, take the time to read them as he knows what he is talking about and has years of experience under his belt.
I do have first hand experience with this, however after reading the thread I don’t feel good about posting.
Thank you @Bobmarvin for not deleting the posts it was an interesting discussion.
Not that I necessarily follow my own advice but we are all here to talk about the old houses we love/hate (otherwise we wouldn’t be here) and the work they require in somewhat of an informal social online setting IMHO.
JohnHancock | 4 years and 2 months ago
@Bob…wise words!
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 4 years and 2 months ago
Colonialrevival,
IMO one of the best things about this forum is that answers often range far afield. You got SOME useful information, but can’t really control how things might meander. That’s just how it works.
colonialrevival | 4 years and 2 months ago
Seems like my post was deleted — but none of the “classist” allegations? I’ll note, I politely asked 3 times for Steve to kindly move on, he chose to ignore it and continue blazing his own trail. I’ve said enough, but what a frustrating scenario when a self-proclaimed protagonist is more interested in hearing themselves talk and mansplain, than respecting the wishes of the person who started the conversation. What a mess.
cate | 4 years and 2 months ago
estabancharles, much can go wrong. Even the professionals get it wrong sometimes. (Like the time when someone apparently with experience relined our chimney and caused a puffback.) Best to leave it to the experts, especially in the city.
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 4 years and 2 months ago
WOOPS—multi-story 19th Century row house.
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 4 years and 2 months ago
As to inserting a new flue liner ad a DIY job, I suspect that it’s somewhat easier on most suburban houses than in a multi/story 18th Century row house. When I had a stainless steel liner installed on a furnace flue years ago the installers warned me that they might have to break open my inside walls. Fortunately that wasn’t needed, but they really struggled.
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 4 years and 2 months ago
Yes bcc Steve—characterizing your comments as “unfortunate ramblings was uncalled for.
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 2 months ago
Bob, i do not like to be rude. If i say anything that is any more rude than the “unfortunate rambings” i got from op, pull it. I got mad and am still mad and i am beginning to realize that some people say stuff without realizing how someone might take it. It is not their fault in a way.
When i come on this board, i realize why some people feel the way they do about things said in the media or by politicians. Its the perception.
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 2 months ago
Esteban, in suffolk county where us lowly people come from, people do stuff like this on their own. If i were doing this in my own place in suffolk county, i would do it on my own.
Defo not in nyc, defo not for a flue more than one story high, and defo not on an attached house. And if you really read what i said, the man i had done this with had some background in it.
If you like what i say, give me some likes.
louisahml | 4 years and 2 months ago
I almost feel guilty for adding to this thread but I’ve learned a lot from everything that was shared. My contribution is really just a question. Can one DIY a flue lining or is this a task that ABSOLUTELY must be done by chimney specialists? Just a quick search shows flexible liners (photos + link attached) being fed down the chimney. I’m certain plenty could go wrong, however, if one is diligent about their work is it any more complicated that this? TIA.
https://www.woodlanddirect.com/easyflex-316ti-pre-insulated-chimney-liner-kit—6/563110.html?a=22975_37=1538-22966_38=43085- [A7588827-601D-4433-B0FF-FB7510DB7875](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s1/:brownstoner:Rq0u:a7588827601d4433b0fffb7510db7875.jpeg.jpg) [915F8C5E-5A58-422A-A56F-07163D924916](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s1/:brownstoner:eKzj:915f8c5e5a58422aa56f07163d924916.jpeg.jpg)
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 4 years and 2 months ago
Steve,
I’m a volunteer moderator and COULD delete this post, but I don’t want to because I think the original question and answers are useful and I also think your most recent replies are important.
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 2 months ago
people do not understand the bigger picture about a lot that has gone on in this country. it may be less about race and more about class.
don’t get me wrong. i have a business and i depend on people who work in high level professional positions. but i want to work for people who understand that people who toil with their hands might actually have something to say and that it might actually be correct.
i am going to post to this post every day to keep it up top. if the mods are smart, they will not only pull my replies to it, they will pull the entire post. we do not need people like OP in this community.
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 2 months ago
before i could not understand why someone would not listen to something that someone had with their hands. especially when i mention LI where this thing is done much more frequently than here. i could not understand it. if you simply wanted to know what other homeowners had to go through, you would have listened to what i was saying and used it for questions or fact checked me, possibly, and then said this “ok, i understand that. but now i need to hear from “homeowners about the permitting process, the architets, etc and when that conversation kicked in, i would have backed out – because i don’t know that.
i was confused by your behavior. Now i am mad. people do not realize the discrimination they convey when they post on this board because they are limited in their own experiences. they think their education and money solves all the problems.
don’t get me wrong, i run a business and need people who make a lot more than i do. but i want to work for people who understand how others live and what they might have to contribute.
i have called cer tain things out on this board in the past and now that i know how to spot this sort of thing, i will call it out here in the future.
progressive thought is not on your side. you do not even understand it.
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 2 months ago
you know, when i read between the lines on what you just said, all i read is “class bias”.
I am glad i gave you that long ramble. it pulled the truth out of you.
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 2 months ago
I did not bulldoze your thread. you asked for people who had done something i told you i did it and when you shut me down because what i was saying was the correct (albeit expensive and safe) way. i made some phone calls and confirmed that i was correct. there is a bigger problem on the internet. i address that above. if you do not understand this, you are part of that problem and people, including people here, are wise to push back against it.
“unfortunate rambling” is not rude when i fully understand what you are looking for and am telling what you are looking for? and working through it by questions stove flue sizes and what you might have to connect to? and posing some questions you can use when you find a contractor?
and if someone is coming on and cannot talk to what you are saying because you do not know or will not post something, how are they to address what you need? it does not make sense to hold information back from people – especially someone who obviously knows more than the other person who replied and could only tell you “google” it. maybe you would have told me something that would have conveyed to me that what you are doing is unlike what i was describing and i would have kept quiet.
“other homeowners who have done this”? there are people in this world and city who dismiss people who work with their hands. is that part of what is going on here? someone in an ivory tower way above my pay grade is not telling you how this is done, so you do not like it? is that what is going on here? they do not know anymore about this than i do. no wonder why young people do not want to go into trades anymore!
do you think our progressive mods will shut this down if they think that is what is going on here? it speaks against who we should be as a people.
colonialrevival | 4 years and 2 months ago
I hope the mods will lock this one, as this was far more than I bargained for when simply seeking other homeowners who have done it. Steve, please resist the urge to reply, I will not read your nonsense any further.
colonialrevival | 4 years and 2 months ago
Thank you for continuing to bulldoze my thread, despite my pleas to repeatedly not do so. I am posting on a forum of homeowners seeking others who have done the same, I’m not hiring you, Steve, to do so and thus maybe am withholding some context I already know of, and will share with whomever I hire. In the future, I hope you’ll be a bit more considerate as opposed to resorting to wall-of-text boomer-ish mansplaining and scolding, it’s unnecessary and rude. Regardless, your behavior here has me taught me to not come back to Brownstoner. Thanks.
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 2 months ago
OP&others: the short answer is, Chimney Repair NY knows how to install stoves in fire places, the correct way (the way I detail; I spoke to maggie there and she said i can quote her). Their number is 516-279-1513. I have more to say about this so if you care to read, get a cup of coffee:
In recent weeks I have alluded to people who are pulling information off the internet or out of books and posting on here as if they are experts in the field. No experience. In replying to this post, Dibs suggested googling how to do it (I google stuff to but I also find a lot of bad information out there especially when it pertains to what I do for a living; things I do everyday). This is not how things were done when I was coming up. We spoke to someone who knew something or knew someone and you talked to people until you got your answer. We also helped older people around their houses – sometimes for pay and sometimes for the sake of learning – and often these people had trade experience themselves but could no longer do the work. it becomes hands-on experience (albeit w ith mistakes along the way; the best way to learn).
I said it here to Urbandad the other day: anyone on here can google something; the people on here need people with experience. I get it, in telling the OP about helping a man install a stove in a fireplace in 1977, he dismissed me because at best, in 1977 he was probably looking over the edge of a baby stroller while wearing cute frilly bonnet; it is hard for him to imagine that I did something in 1977 and have recollection of it (yanks won, over dodgers; I know where I was the next day). There is something that OP and others on here do not realize about people who actually do something (as opposed to watching it on you tube or googling it) and that is that we rememeber it – for years. I did not look this stuff up on the net the other day; I can still visualize it. I am saying this here because a lot is being lost by young people not doing things with older people and people relying too much on google. if you do not understand what I am talking about, you might be part of the problem.
OP, you came on here and pointed out that your chimney is not unlined (that is a double negative, why not just say “lined”) and it is perfect (and I did not seem to care or focus on these facts and there is a reason why I didn’t). You did not seem to know what it was lined with(we will assume Terra Cotta because it is old) but as you kept pushing back against me, I began wondering if someone along the way had put a stainless sleeve in it (which I knew might be a game changer).
FIRST MISTAKE: if you are going to ask anyone who might know something that might involve sticking anything up a chimney, KNOW WHAT YOUR LINER IS MADE OF AND THE DIMENSIONS. Do your employers know you approach projects this way? Would you not find that embaressing if you went to a meeting at the start of some project and knew you would be talking about something but did not take the initiative to look at extant conditions? (my first job out of college was working for a property management firm; my boss would have ripped me a new one if I walked into a meeting with the HOA board and did not have information like this). You would not pass a job interview here – and I am not being nasty by saying that – it is the truth.
For the purposes of this discussion, we can assume that you have terra cotta. You say it is 106 years old. We will assume that no one has come along and put a steel insert in and we can assume that to save money, and perhaps risk the safety of your family, the you do not want to put any sort of metal flue up the full length of the chimney. The man I helped do this in 1977 had a 15 year old terra cotta lined chimney that we can assume was in good condition. We can also assume that this man knew what he was doing because he was not only an engineer but owned a small firm that sold gas fired heating equipment (perhaps if I had recalled that when posting the other day you would have thought more of what I was saying? By the time I came along he was the VP for facilities – nationally – for a major NYC based department store chain).
I called two companies last night and a third person, someone I know. the first company I called was a stove installer in Westchester. The second a fire place insert install here in Maspeth. BOTH OF THESE COMPANIES DID NOT CARE IF YOU HAD A GOOD TERRA COTTA LINING. The first one said “unless you have a stainless steel liner in there that they can put the flue from the stove to, they were installing a stainless steel flue from the stove, up and out the top of the chimney” I asked the first person if there were other ways to do this and she sidestepped the question and said “if we were to do this, that is the only way we will do it” (read; “no short cuts”). The second company said the same but without the bit about the stainless steel liner to connect to.
The two companies above would not address short cuts. They are pros – they are not going to endanger someone’s property or lives. So I called someone I know. I was able to get him to entertain this question (because he does not work in the field) “can attach a flue to the stove and stick it say 3 feet up the flue and put some fire proof material around it to close gaps?” he said “that is exactly what you DON’T want to do…..”
Since these companies do not work in the city, I called the firm I mention at the start above. She told me the same thing the other companies said and she told me “no, you would not stick a flue 3” up there. It is all the way to the top”. (and buy the way, this is not to say what DIBS did with the gas is wrong. He is using gas and we are talking about wood).
So OP, I am sorry if you are bothered by my “stories”. The reason I convey these through “stories” is because that is how I recall the details and that is how I remember these things (and know this, there is either a lot that man I was working with did not tell me or that he told me and I do not recall: the “why” part; I have no recollection of that; I still cannot tell you why he or these people today run a flue the length of the chimney during a fire place stove retrofit). Years ago, when people like us who work with our hands were learning these things, the older men we worked with told us stories about things they had seen on other jobs and how they solved a problem (that is the same way I convey this to you). That was how we learned. Keep something in mind, there are people on here reading and posting from the ‘net, repeating all sorts of nonsense as though they discovered it for the first time and wrote it themselves. They do not have stories and details – that is because they never did it. if you do not understand what I am saying and if you do not understand why you should be embarrassed here – you are part of the problem.
I appreciate your giving me this opportunity OP. I will probably edit this a little and post it as a stand alone.
I am going to get some positive emails about this one-