Widening gap between baseboard and floor

Hi all! Hoping to get some clarity on the severity/lack thereof of our newest fun with the house: per the attached photos, there is a noticeable and widening quarter to half inch gap between our floors and the adjoining wall/baseboard. This extends to our mantle, and kitchen countertop (which is new, ie, this gap wasn’t here 1-2 mos ago). Basically, our floors are moving and it’s freaking me out.

Our floors are far from level and have been that way since we moved in 5 years ago, but this seems to be a worsening issue; we renovated our home last year and I’m now wondering whether we have some new structural deficiency as a result, or alternately, if the home is just doing some minor resettling. We’ve previously consulted a structural engineer who assured us our home had no major issues, but we’re now considering another consult – any recommendations or experiences very much appreciated!

Many thanks,
Evan [AD27B46D-EE5F-4FEA-A1D3-88B94C0F1270](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:O5zH:ad27b46dee5f4feaa1d388b94c0f1270.jpeg.jpg) [576CED26-CF9A-4F71-85EC-29C8377B19A4](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:niJD:576ced26cf9a4f7185ec29c8377b19a4.jpeg.jpg) [943876C 7-8E02-4129-993C-7B2030E5C4E5](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:kqsW:943876c78e024129993c7b2030e5c4e5.jpeg.jpg) [C53DCD9C-F0D0-48F3-96B8-09EB1C085D5B](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:EZRM:c53dcd9cf0d048f396b809eb1c085d5b.jpeg.jpg)

evan

in General Discussion 2 years and 1 month ago

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justinromeu26 | 2 years and 1 month ago

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@lcrilatorino: i am not sure that is the problem in many of these homes. Most of the time the floor slopes toward the stair penetration and never the other way. I tjink it has something to do with the penetration.

lcrivolitorino | 2 years and 1 month ago

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The problem is on these structures is that the joist is pocketed into the party wall and that is sitting on brick and/or mortar; and over time the mortar has turned into dirt or sanded away and many of these joists start to drop down or they get rotted at that area and sag, so that most likely is the problem apart from the shifting and settling of the foundation rocks. I’ve seen this many times. To fix it you would have to open from underneath and check the joists at the party wall.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 1 month ago

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this is a lot to take in. i have other thoughts here, in my own house. i don’t often suspect moisture damages the joists under the bathrooms though and if someone notched a joist or drilled and overly large hole in it and it let go or cracked, i suspect that the resulting incline would be much more severe than the gradual slope we see in most houses or it would appear a little more severe in an isolated area.

when i get some time, i am going to investigate this further in my house and i might decide to take action. i want to level the floor at least and want to know why the gaps under the molding. if i learn anything about this and recall this post, i will come back on here with what i find out.

cate | 2 years and 1 month ago

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Interesting, whoawhoawhoa. Thank you. Re sagging bathrooms, sometimes plumbers cut holes in joists for plumbing and this can also cause weakness and sagging.

markwalker | 2 years and 1 month ago

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Homeinspector, I have had this theory that the sagging beams or joists are caused in part by water from OLD concrete slab bathroom floors. Concrete isn’t waterproof, or solid enough for water not to slowly filter through it. The areas in my house that were sagging the most were located close to the bathroom on each floor. I do not know very much about building and I was wondering what you thought.

When we were deciding what to do about our own issue, the architect we had walked around the floor and located the low point of the “belly” (or sag) and it was close to the bathroom entrance. Possibly this is a coincidence, but it might be there is a weak point or flexible point there on account of the very slow seepage of water. Old bathrooms were not waterproofed like newer ones. We ended up ripping out the floor and replacing it because our floor was also lower in the back of the house than the front.

Another theory is that if the OP had a steel beam (or patio doors or similar items) inserted into the back walls of their house, it might expand and contract at a differe nt rate than the brick work it supported, and this might be compressing some of the wood in the frame of the house, causing it to cup. You would have to ask a structural engineer if that was true.

Just some thoughts.

hasibur.rahman07 | 2 years and 1 month ago

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Take measurements every month of the gap so you can see if it’s increasing or decreasing. What work was done on the house to cause settling? Did you list all the work and share with the engineers?

evan | 2 years and 1 month ago

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Thank you all for the helpful guidance as always; particularly appreciate your overview of the right way to go through with floor jacking, if at all, HomeInspector. I’m going to do some further research, but the sense I’m getting is that this is likely not a critical issue/probably just something to live with; I do think our renovation (+ added weight of things like stone floors, countertops, etc) may be worsening our slant, but our floors and foundation seems equipped to handle it. That said, would still love to hear from any folks who have successfully dealt with this issue. In the meantime, I’ll just keep racing marbles with the kids!

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 1 month ago

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OP, i just took a look at the picture on that old house on line link you posted. i did not have time to look yesterday and won’t read the article today. i want to let you know that the picture is deceptive. if you are thinking about doing this, know that it is not prudent to put jack columns (lolly) on a concrete slab like shown in the picture and if most of us with these rat slabs here did something like this in our houses, the columns would go right through the rat slab.

the only way to do something like that is cut the rat slab and/or dig out the earth to prepare footings below grade and jack the beams and put the columns in with the threaded portion of the column down against the footing, unscrew it to height, pour more concrete on top of the footing, covering the threads and leveling the concrete to the floor (i have done this myself years ago). done any other way and those threaded columns are seen as temporary (at least in NYC) and will have to come out.

if you are contemplating something like this, you either have to have a really good structural contra ctor or an engineer or both. i would not even read that article after seeing that picture there because even if that was written for someone in East Bunny Hole, Maine, that is not the correct way to do this-

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 1 month ago

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we have had this for years and have humidifiers on in the summer and winter and it has not changed it – it has only gotten worse. i would hope if the engineer looked at it, he would have pointed out that it was a change in the moisture content of the wood. I also hope that as bill laredo got down on his hands and knees in my house and looked at this, he would have said the wood contracted.

I just checked the gap in my house, under my door frames, and they are in places where the floor has sagged to one side of the house and closer to the penetration (stairs). the other side, this has not happen.

wood floors move by contracting toward the center of the floor. the wood moves across the grain and with the grain (not so much) with the humidity. the reason shoe molding is not nailed to the baseboard is so that when the floor contracts, it does not pull the molding with it.

i will try to get laredo bill to sign in and comment. i need to talk to say hello to him anyway.

cate | 2 years and 1 month ago

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I was just going to say the same as Randolph. Could it just be winter low humidity? All wood floors move. Wait and see what happens in July/August. If the structural engineer said you have no major issues, there is probably no cause for worry.

randolph | 2 years and 1 month ago

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I think some of that could be attributed to way houses can contract/expand depending on temperature and humidity. i wouldn’t be surprised if that gap closed up a bit in the summer.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 1 month ago

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ALL of these houses have this problem. Usually it occurs around the floor penetrations (stair openings) because the joists around the opening give or sag or in my house it appears that the joist stirrups have settled for some reason and it looks like whatever took place, happened a long time ago.

We made some modifications here six years ago that added weight and now i am thinking the same way you are that things are sagging even more. I also see a crack in our dining room plaster that looks as though it has something to do with the sag.

When we bought this house we were aware of some of this and i looked at the joists and found nothing broken or twisted (by the way, if joists are missing bridging they can deflect and deflection = sag) but over time i decided i want to stop and correct this. I called bill of laredo construction. He used to write on this board as “restoration contractor”. I am a contractor myself, but not structural. Bill is structural. He looked at my house and felt it was not bad and was not going to get so bad that it would be worth the trouble. I did not consult with him to pay him yo do the work. I called him to tell me what to do so i can do it myself.

Now. In my house i can see older plaster repairs around an arch in the dining room and in a few other spots. I know these walls opened up due to the sag. Repairs might have been made 50 or 70 years ago. This is what will happen if i jack this sag up: the plaster around these repairs will have no where to go and it will break it off the walls. I am also worried about cracking a tile floor.

You don’t necessarily need an engineer to look at this, but maybe a very good structural contractor. If it were me, i would probably go this route since i am a contractor: i would call a really competent contractor and first get a sense of cost and if i know i could do it, have the contractor type a quote detailing what needs to be done. i would then call an engineer to review what the contractor said. If the engineer can not fault what the contractor tells you, you know you have your contractor. The right person will make child’s play out of this.

I am not sure where bill from laredo has been but i can try to reach him and see if he can respond. Last i spoke to him, he said he was to busy to come on here.

Steve
Brownstone Home Inspection llc
Www.brownstonehomeinspection.com

evan | 2 years and 1 month ago

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    ["display_name"]=>
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So, after doing some research, I think I have a better sense of the problem and potential solutions and wanted to amend my original post. I found this article to be particularly clear and was wondering if anyone had specific experience with the proposed solutions laid out here, namely jacking https://www.oldhouseonline.com/repairs-and-how-to/how-to-fix-sagging-floors/

Any companies/contractors that folks recommend? General cost of this work? Timeline? Results? Possible pitfalls/other considerations? Again, any guidance greatly appreciated.

Thanks so much!
Evan