Who owns the space under the stoop?

Random question, but who typically owns the space under the stoop in a co-op brownstone? Is it common area or garden unit? (This is all assuming it’s not explicitly stated in the building documents or stock certificate/s).

Guest User | 2 years and 6 months ago

7

Please log in, in order to post replies!

7 replies

Newest Oldest

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 6 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4908 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4920 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "189743"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "justinromeu26"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BjSWB1c5WUJ0DBogl53oBDpnZifM8J."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "justinromeu26"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(23) "justinromeu26@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2022-05-10 20:48:00"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(61) "Your First Name Your Last Name Your First Name Your Last Name"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(189743)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(3) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

The term that may more widely be used in ny is “limited common area”.

It seems that in some states, the statutes address the limited or exclusive use common area which is probably a good thing because it lays out who is responsible if something goes wrong. The bad thing is what i mention above where the board told a handful of owners it was revocable at any time.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 6 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4910 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4907 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "189743"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "justinromeu26"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BjSWB1c5WUJ0DBogl53oBDpnZifM8J."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "justinromeu26"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(23) "justinromeu26@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2022-05-10 20:48:00"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(61) "Your First Name Your Last Name Your First Name Your Last Name"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(189743)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(3) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Google “exclusive use common area”.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 6 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4909 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4906 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "189743"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "justinromeu26"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BjSWB1c5WUJ0DBogl53oBDpnZifM8J."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "justinromeu26"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(23) "justinromeu26@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2022-05-10 20:48:00"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(61) "Your First Name Your Last Name Your First Name Your Last Name"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(189743)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(3) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

I once worked for a condo on the coast of nc that had several storage units on the premises outside of the living space and the board told the owners because they were not part of the sq foot of the unit and not in any documents that the use of such was revocable at any time. The reason the board made such a statement was because there were not enough storage units for everyone and they were worried about what was being put in them (outboard gas tanks) and the board did not want to be on the hook for liability or the responsibility if something went wrong including rebuilding them if a storm came through. In this case the units were under the buildings. They were not deeded and no additional common charge was assessed for the units. The issue only came about when owners who wanted storage units got annoyed. Then everything about the units became an issue, including safety.

This sounds like the same sort of thing and the only way it will be addressed is when something goes wrong (like the stoop has to be rebuilt and the board says the new one will not have stora ge or someone gets hurt entering your unit and insurance companies begin fighting).

Generally speaking, people try to get along better in these small coops in brooklyn because everyone has to live so close to one another. The relationships are usually a little more fraught in a resort condo because with increased distance comes decreased civility. In other words, other owners might be eyeing that space but they dare not say anything.

I bet someone in brooklyn has been through this but they are not on this forum.

Guest User | 2 years and 6 months ago

string(1) "3"
string(6) "202616"

Thanks for the replies so far. No other units use the gated area under the stairs to enter the building. The only building door within this area goes directly into our unit. I’m really just asking to see if there is precedent for this sort of thing because we currently use it for light storage but would rather not have other units say “Can we store stuff there, too?” given that the gate is a) loud and b) right next to a window in our unit. I can imagine it being a slippery slope if other units have keys to the gated area under the stairs and come and go as they please.

cate | 2 years and 6 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4890 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4892 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "176696"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(4) "cate"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(63) "$wp$2y$10$4JNbGAK5cKoEp6kzsYVSBO7oMZphxvnQPCDInpVARCm3B1Dj6U75i"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(4) "cate"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(20) "cate@brownstoner.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:24:59"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(13) "Cate Corcoran"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(176696)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["administrator"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["editor"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(13) "administrator"
    [1]=>
    string(6) "editor"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(191) {
    ["switch_themes"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_themes"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["activate_plugins"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_plugins"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_users"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_files"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["manage_options"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["moderate_comments"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["manage_categories"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["manage_links"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["upload_files"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["import"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["unfiltered_html"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_posts"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_others_posts"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_published_posts"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["publish_posts"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_pages"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_10"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_9"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_8"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_7"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_6"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_5"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_4"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_3"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_2"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_1"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_others_pages"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_published_pages"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["publish_pages"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_pages"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_others_pages"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_published_pages"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_posts"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_others_posts"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_published_posts"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_private_posts"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_private_posts"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["read_private_posts"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_private_pages"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_private_pages"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["read_private_pages"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_users"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["create_users"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["unfiltered_upload"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_dashboard"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["update_plugins"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_plugins"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["install_plugins"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["update_themes"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["install_themes"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["update_core"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["list_users"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["remove_users"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["promote_users"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_theme_options"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_themes"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["export"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["NextGEN Gallery overview"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["NextGEN Use TinyMCE"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["NextGEN Upload images"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["NextGEN Manage gallery"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["NextGEN Manage tags"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["NextGEN Manage others gallery"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["NextGEN Edit album"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["NextGEN Change style"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["NextGEN Change options"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["email_users_notify"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["email_single_user"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["email_multiple_users"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["email_user_groups"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["NextGEN Attach Interface"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["copy_posts"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["ure_edit_roles"]=>
    bool(false)
    ["ure_create_roles"]=>
    bool(false)
    ["ure_delete_roles"]=>
    bool(false)
    ["ure_create_capabilities"]=>
    bool(false)
    ["ure_delete_capabilities"]=>
    bool(false)
    ["ure_manage_options"]=>
    bool(false)
    ["ure_reset_roles"]=>
    bool(false)
    ["edit_ads_txt"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["manage_feed_settings"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_feed_source"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["read_feed_source"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_feed_source"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_feed_sources"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_others_feed_sources"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["publish_feed_sources"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["read_private_feed_sources"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_feed_sources"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_private_feed_sources"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_published_feed_sources"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_others_feed_sources"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_private_feed_sources"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_published_feed_sources"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["manage_feed_source_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_feed_source_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_feed_source_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["assign_feed_source_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_feed_item"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["read_feed_item"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_feed_item"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_feed_items"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_others_feed_items"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["publish_feed_items"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["read_private_feed_items"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_feed_items"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_private_feed_items"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_published_feed_items"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_others_feed_items"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_private_feed_items"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_published_feed_items"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["manage_feed_item_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_feed_item_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_feed_item_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["assign_feed_item_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_feed_blacklist"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["read_feed_blacklist"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_feed_blacklist"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_feed_blacklists"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_others_feed_blacklists"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["publish_feed_blacklists"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["read_private_feed_blacklists"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_feed_blacklists"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_private_feed_blacklists"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_published_feed_blacklists"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_others_feed_blacklists"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_private_feed_blacklists"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_published_feed_blacklists"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["manage_feed_blacklist_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_feed_blacklist_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_feed_blacklist_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["assign_feed_blacklist_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_feed_template"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["read_feed_template"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_feed_template"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_feed_templates"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_others_feed_templates"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["publish_feed_templates"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["read_private_feed_templates"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_feed_templates"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_private_feed_templates"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_published_feed_templates"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_others_feed_templates"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_private_feed_templates"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_published_feed_templates"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["manage_feed_template_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_feed_template_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_feed_template_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["assign_feed_template_terms"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_shortcoder"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["read_shortcoder"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_shortcoder"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_shortcoders"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_others_shortcoders"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["publish_shortcoders"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_shortcoders"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_published_shortcoders"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["delete_others_shortcoders"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["edit_published_shortcoders"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["aioseo_manage_seo"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["aioseo_page_analysis"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["aioseo_page_general_settings"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["aioseo_page_advanced_settings"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["aioseo_page_schema_settings"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["aioseo_page_social_settings"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_edit_htaccess"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_titles"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_general"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_sitemap"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_404_monitor"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_link_builder"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_redirections"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_role_manager"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_search_console"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_site_analysis"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_onpage_analysis"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_onpage_general"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_onpage_advanced"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_onpage_snippet"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_onpage_social"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_admin_bar"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_analytics"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_content_ai"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["srm_manage_redirects"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["SPF Manage Analytics"]=>
    bool(false)
    ["administrator"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["editor"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Might be different if many units enter through the garden floor entrance. If the building docs don’t say, maybe it’s common. Be forewarned, it’s usually a small and wet (sometimes moldy) space whose chief utility is for storing brooms and shovels for sweeping the sidewalk and shoveling snow. You could also probably fit one bike, a scooter, some folding chairs, and a few screens and storm windows.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 6 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4913 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4905 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "189743"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "justinromeu26"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BjSWB1c5WUJ0DBogl53oBDpnZifM8J."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "justinromeu26"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(23) "justinromeu26@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2022-05-10 20:48:00"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(61) "Your First Name Your Last Name Your First Name Your Last Name"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(189743)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(3) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

May not matter unless someone gets hurt there and files an insurance claim. Then whose insurance pays?

Guest User | 2 years and 6 months ago

string(1) "3"
string(6) "202616"

EDIT: I saw this same question posed about 12 years ago in the forum. I tend to agree with most of the points there. There is a locked gate (to which only we have the key) that opens into the under-stoop area.. From there, there is a door directly into our unit. Seems like a no-brainer that this is “our” space and not shared. by building.