Upper Porch repair...help....

Hi. My row house has an upper and lower porch. The second floor porch integrity has degraded due to a total knockdown and rebuild of the house next door. Several years later, the porch was removed from the house on the other side leaving my upper porch to stand alone. There are temporary and solid supports that have been added from the lower porch to the upper and it appears stable. However, the railings from the upper porch have been removed and there is a door out to the upper porch. Not an ideal situation that needs to be resolved. Thinking I have 3 options: 1. seal off the door access to the upper porch. 2. replace the railing and ensure the integrity of the upper porch. 3. remove the porch. I hate to loose the shade for the lower porch, so maybe seal off the upper door and replace with some kind of awning? Would love to get some suggestions and maybe recommendations for a company that would work with me at a fair price. Appreciate your thoughts!

dbowen

in General Discussion 4 years and 3 months ago

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dbowen | 4 years and 2 months ago

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That’s my preference too. I’m a 3rd generation owner so there’s the sentimental aspect of maintaining the original character as long as it’s safe and makes sense ($$).

hkapstein | 4 years and 2 months ago

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Well there’s an irony, because the building code and technology is so much more advanced now, but a brownstone has outlasted and probably will continue to outlast many structures built today. I’d make the extra effort to continue using the 2nd story terrace. Because with building codes evolving, you may not be able to rebuild it later.

dbowen | 4 years and 2 months ago

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No inspection that I’m aware of right now but you also make a good case for removal and replace with an awning. Patrick (the referred structural carpenter) is coming by today for a look. Hoping his assessment will give me enough information to figure out which way to go.

hkapstein | 4 years and 2 months ago

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Does it need to withstand an inspection? Any deck system build over 20 years ago has a very high chance of not living up to current standards. However, back in the 80s, I don’t remember experiencing any fear when standing on a deck, so I guess the threshold has changed.

If you don’t need to pass an inspection, I guess it’s up to you if the support system is acceptable. Personally, I’m comfortable with many deck structures that would never pass an inspection today. Technically you need at least12 inch footing about 3 feet below grade on the supports, and certain other requirement, which it’s very unlikely you have. The railing requirement are also a bit crazy, but I wouldn’t go with anything less than 36 inches, and anything that could break off under reasonable conditions. I think by code it needs to withstand 500 lbs in any direction or something like this, but don’t hold me to that.

dbowen | 4 years and 2 months ago

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Agree…however…I’ve had 2 companies come out for an awning estimate and both have been pleasantly surprised at the good condition of the supports as well as the porch floor. 120 years old, go figure. It’s given me a sliver of hope that a railing, minor reinforcement and some cosmetics just might be feasible.

hkapstein | 4 years and 2 months ago

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The pic looks like it’s 30 years old, so I wouldn’t comment on the condition based on that.

dbowen | 4 years and 2 months ago

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The original rail was wood…later replaced with wrought iron, now removed (which is a problem). If I can get the porch shored up, then it’s just a matter of a railing.

Guest User | 4 years and 2 months ago

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I assumed the porch is wood but the railing is metal? Is that right?

dbowen | 4 years and 2 months ago

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I will give him a call. The porch is wood.

resident2 | 4 years and 2 months ago

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If it is wood call Patrick 718-309-3934 a great structural carpenter. If it is metal, call an iron person.

dbowen | 4 years and 2 months ago

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I will. Thank you SO much for the recommendation.

Guest User | 4 years and 2 months ago

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Michael on the Forum recommended Victor Williams for a deck but Victor does construction as well. Victor Williams . Try him. He was very nice and seemed trustworthy.

dbowen | 4 years and 2 months ago

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The deck itself is in good shape. Railing is a must and some trim around the bottom of the deck to make it look nice. It’s not a huge job and finding someone willing to do it has been quite a challenge.

hkapstein | 4 years and 2 months ago

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So you feel that the problem is the railing or the structural stability of the porch? Railings must be done to code, and it not trivial, although doable, to retrofit a compliant railing. The main issue is that railings are usually fastened to the rime joist of a deck, and no matter how well the railing is fastened, the rim joist itself can tear off and thuse would need to be reinforced. However if you can support the railings from columns supporting the deck, you can potentially avoid this problem. Now if the deck itself is not adequately supported, you need to consult an engineer to determine whether the supports are properly sized and have an adequate foundation and what remedial work would be needed to make it safe.

Guest User | 4 years and 3 months ago

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If you can afford it do 2 unless you don’t want the upper porch. I would get quotes from a contractor and separately from an iron worker (for the railing). If you have access through the door on the upper level, you need the railing (seems like you know that though).

dbowen | 4 years and 3 months ago

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  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(3) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

This is not a current pic but a good shot of the upper porch back in the day. [Porch](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:p7L4:porch.jpg.jpg)

hkapstein | 4 years and 3 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5136 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4900 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "197623"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(9) "hkapstein"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$Bi/rarQU.AidQ5DWnWIzXSi7UikLcx/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(31) "boerumamaemailnotprovided-local"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(19) "hkapstein@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2018-06-15 18:43:24"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(14) "Helen Kapstein"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(197623)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(3) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

A picture or two would be worth a lot here.