The immigrant experience and home acquisition; a historic comparison

As some of you know, I have been commenting on here on the subject of pay and benefits for laborers working in present day NYC for over a week now. This began with Dibs suggesting that “our youth should learn a trade such as welding” and my following that statement by pointing out the reality of being a tradesperson in this city in 2019. Of course, since most of the labor is new to the country, there are other issues that come along with such a discussion. At some point, BruceF pointed out that he has hired undocumented labor and has always been pleased to have been able to help such “hardworking, loyal” people just as someone “helped his ancestors 100 years ago”. reaching back a century or more made me think of two of my own great-grandfathers, both of whom arrived here in the first decade of the twentieth century and both of whom were building houses at opposite ends of Long Island within ten years of their arrival (a cousin still owns one of these houses and the other my father and his cousins sold in 1995). My question then became, do we think anyone today can dream about building a house, even in the outlying areas, on what we are paying people to labor in NYC? Now I have some more questions and hope you will suffer my writing and contemplate them when you encounter them at the end of what follows:

As a student of history, I have been told that we cannot make fair comparisons and judgements between situations today and the past as society and what is deemed acceptable has changed. If we accept that notion, then we must accept that the economics have changed as well. JHCovert pointed out that it is very expensive to work on houses in NYC; in other words, it may take more of one’s expendable income than it once did or might if we were in another time period or town or city someplace else (keep in mind though, people make more here; my immigrant wife makes much more to do what she does in this city than she could have where we used to live, Wilmington, NC and consequently, if we hire a painter here, we should pay him or her more than if we were living back in Wilmington). Knowing the comparison might not have been a fair one, I went ahead and plugged my own great-grandfathers’ experiences building their houses 100 years ago as an example and pointed out that one of those men secured a mortgage from the man whom I believe had employed him (at a time when a bank might not have given my great-grandfather a second look).

As with BruceF acknowledging those unknowns who helped his ancestors 100 years ago, I did the same here the other day, but I was fortunate enough to be able to name one of the people who assisted my family. I wish to continue. We have mortgage receipts signed by that man, Herbert L. Fordham, as proof that he helped my immigrant great-grandfather achieve the cornerstone of the American dream, home ownership. For years now, I have read BruceF’s comments on here and know him to be a kind and helpful person and I am certain that if he knew the names of those who helped his ancestors, he would have posted them here along with the assistance they provided. For anyone reading this, if any of you know anyone descended from Herbert L. Fordham, late, of Greenport, LI, please feel free to let them know their ancestor is being acknowledged here.

I am not fully sure of the relationship between my great grandfather and Herbert Fordham other than to say I believe he worked for him (I can ask my elderly aunt or dig out some old research to learn more; his name did come up in a discussion some time back). At one time the federal census records my great-grandfather as a laboring as a “gardener” and at another time I think he was listed as an “estate superintendent” and now that I am writing this I recall once seeing him being referred to as “lead man for ….”. all of this work, if not for Mr. Fordham on his estate certainly would have not been far from it. Later, my great grandfather worked with one of his own sons on an oyster boat and was a fisherman, both of these jobs most likely taken after Fordham, who was a full generation older than my great-grandfather, met his own demise. No matter where my great-grandfather worked, Mr. Fordham held the mortgage on the house. Now that I am writing this, I am wondering if Fordham had actually sold or given my great-grandfather the land on which to build the house to have my great-grandfather near-by as a sort of an “on-call” handyman as their houses were only about ½ mile apart (a very mutual arrangement, if it is true, indeed).

I learned about Fordham and his holding the mortgage on my great-grandfather’s house when I was in my mid-twenties. As soon as I learned that, Fordham, who had probably died 30 years before I was born, took on epic proportions in my head and became almost god-like to me. Frankly, knowing the meager worth of my great-grandfather’s estate when he died in 1976 (the house being the biggest part of it) I felt as though Fordham had done something very special for my immigrant family. In all honesty, I think Fordham went out on a limb and I am not sure it is a limb I would go out on for anyone but immediate family.

before I ask the questions that all of you know are coming, I want to thank BruceF for bringing forward the plight of his own ancestors because had he not, I would never have thought to recount my own great- grandfathers’ experiences in acquiring their own homes.

All of this begs some questions: Does anyone reading this today hold a mortgage for someone who has labored for them? If not, what amount of income would a potential borrower, a laborer who has lived in the country for 8 years as my great grandfather’s had when they began building their houses, have to make before one of us would consider holding a mortgage for them? Now keep in mind that the modern-day people I am talking about are laboring under the same conditions today that BruceF’s and my own ancestors labored under one hundred years ago; no workmen’s comp, no disability, no unemployment insurance, and no healthcare insurance. What would it take? Would I loan someone 400k to buy a coop someplace if they made $25 an hour? Would I loan them that if they made $35 an hour? Or perhaps, would I consider a husband and wife team if they each made $40 an hour? Or would we simply consider the risk too great even if a married couple each made $60 an hour and pass on helping them in such a way because they have no disability insurance, no unemployment insurance and no health insurance? (when I mention healthcare insurance, please do not think I am suggesting we give any one group health insurance before we give it to anyone else here, that is not my suggestion at all).

I know the comparison between 1916 and 2019 may not be a good one as things have changed; the cost of labor against bricks or food, or a plank of wood, etc is not what it was at one time. Still, the point I am making here is, if you look at what my great-grandfathers were able to achieve within 10 years of their arrival (and I have another ancestor from my mom’s side who bought a house on Dekalb Ave in Bushwick within 20 years after his arrival in 1836) it seems that the people who are laboring in this region are much worse off today, even after this country spent a full 80 years instituting social programs which included worker’s comp, social security disability, and unemployment insurance and on top of it all, it was followed by a whole bunch of 1960’s civil right legislation.

I am not sure how all of you feel about the plight of today’s immigrant laborer, but if one my great- grandfather showed up here, today, looking for a job, I think I would tell him “go back to 1907, you will be much better off”.