Termites = deal breaker?

We’re considering a brownstone, which according to our inspector, showed “termite damage noted to last couple of floor joists in cellar. Treatment needed if proof of treatment not provided. Damaged joists should be sistered.” Otherwise, he said, house appears in good condition for its age and seems to be structurally sound with just a few priority issues to deal with immediately. Seller wasn’t aware of termite issue and offered to solve/treat the termite issue and provide documentation — and broker suggested we can add a rider to contract re: guaranteed delivery of termite-free house. Our RE attorney has offered advice that, of course, we ask seller to provide services/documentation re: termite abatement — but further suggested that if an inspector finds there are currently live insects then we walk away. Part of us is alarmed that it might be that big a problem for us (and a cost we’d regret.) Part of us is inclined to deal with the issue, factor into negotiations, as the house’s value might be bigger than the sum of its renovation costs, and growing every day in this market. What do you think?

4567rsp

in General Discussion 8 years and 4 months ago

5

Please log in, in order to post replies!

5 replies

Newest Oldest

brikenny | 8 years and 3 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4848 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4859 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(4) "7134"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(8) "brikenny"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BuewY1MbJC9wLJnis.5Up/xDEuUxVG."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(8) "brikenny"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(20) "brikenny@hotmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(50) "http://bstoner.wpengine.com/forums/users/brikenny/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:13:49"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(8) "brikenny"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(7134)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

My pre-closing inspection revealed evidence of termites and powder-post beetles, both long-gone, but the damage was mostly to the ends of floor joists. Fortunately they were first floor joists and accessible from the basement, but they had been somewhat structurally compromised at the very ends that went into the pockets in the brick wall. Pouring a new footer one foot out from the wall and building a support armature on that took a few days and a couple of thousand dollars, but now provides additional support across the 4 compromised beams. It has worked fine for 18 years. If your damage is really minor or cosmetic there is no reason to dismiss an otherwise sound house, especially if the remedy doesn’t alter the appearance or use of your home. But even if there is some structural damage, it can be dealt with, and a good structural engineer could tell you exactly how to do it.

figtree | 8 years and 3 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4849 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4850 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "182894"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(7) "figtree"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$B8I78pk/Ite9fmMbdYz7jxfpnUAodP."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(7) "figtree"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(27) "jason_shahinfar@hotmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 13:28:05"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(20) "RCBNWKBKh8Z0KH3NvMx8"
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(7) "figtree"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(182894)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

If you really love this house and plan on doing renovations anyway, I would whole heartedly encourage you to go for it. My story is similar to Nalusurf. I bought a home in the ditmas park area a few years back and there was extensive termite damage (an old lady lived there by herself and didn’t deal with it). Her family members then treated the termites before the sale and put in a sentricon termite control perimeter. In addition to numerous floor joists needing to be sistered or completely replaced, one of the main beams holding up the house was seriously eaten away and we replaced the whole thing with an i-beam. All I’m saying is that fixing termite damage, treating termites, and preventing future termites are all very doable. It sounds like you have much less to deal with than I did. If you still have the potential to renegotiate, then do that. The seller seems receptive. It sounds like you really want the house.

nalusurf | 8 years and 3 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4853 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4847 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "176812"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(8) "nalusurf"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$B3EsFpsqLLNliF0qOma5D0JRgCjxE11"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(8) "nalusurf"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(23) "peterh.walter@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(23) "/forums/users/nalusurf/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:25:48"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(8) "nalusurf"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(176812)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

We purchased our brownstone almost 4 years ago and inspection revealed termite damage in rear 1/3 of main girder. It was determined to be quite old and not active, and we acquired the proof necessary for the closing. On our own I removed all the sheetrock in the cellar after closing for fear of hidden damage. Long story short we replaced the entire main girder with a steel I-beam, sistered several joists with steel C-channels and poured new footing for the girder. About a $7500 job and, in my opinion, 100% worth it to know I now have a solid foundation and improved the value of my investment that continues to improve on it’s own in this market. I agree with the others here, some degree of termite damage is more likely the norm in these old homes, and finding a good home during this time is increasingly nightmarish.

daveinbedstuy | 8 years and 3 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4848 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4846 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(4) "3864"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "daveinbedstuy"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BtJYyObAQmff2MQp.qFP7/kmwU1bBZ1"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "daveinbedstuy"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(19) "djl135e54@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(55) "http://bstoner.wpengine.com/forums/users/daveinbedstuy/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:23:53"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(13) "daveinbedstuy"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(3864)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Most older houses have some sort of ongoing or past termite damage. If it’s only a couple of floor joists you have absolutely nothing to worry about. An actual termite inspection would indicate any exisint live nests. Maybe get the seller to pay for that first. But, in the grand scheme of buting an older home, I think what you describe is rather commonplace and not worth worrying about. Home inspectors point out every little thi ng they see. Oftentimes, especially to first time homeowners or those inexperienced with mechanicals, construction, etc these seem like big deals.

mozeeatupu | 8 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4849 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4845 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "176749"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(10) "mozeeatupu"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BHO3bQekVGtCrXmPMzpkzkalt5eAQl/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(10) "mozeeatupu"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(17) "grandzu@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(25) "/forums/users/mozeeatupu/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:25:47"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(10) "mozeeatupu"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(176749)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Termite treatment and joists getting sistered is common. Finding a good house might not be. The owner seems responsive but it’s you know your own comfort level. Also costs and owning a brownstone go hand in hand. You’re buying a building probably over 100 years old.