Tenants, gas range, gas leak

I am sort of … I got a call from my tenant. The 11 yo kid turned on gas range. Probably, the range ignition was dirty … or wet. So, no flame and kid left it as is, did not tur it off.
We have carbomonoxide detectors installed, but it did not react to the gas smell.
Either them or other tenant called emergency.
Emergency crew came and they shut the connection to the range.
They said that range is old and needs to be replaced (it is 15 yo).

I am thinking of 2 things: why detector did not work (if it really did not work).
Another thing is what if the kid would leave it as is for longer, nobody reacted and the house vould be blown. Should i talk to my tenants?

We are landlords since 2004, never had this situation before. And suddenly it is the second case this last year.
The fist case was another tenant and 3years old range. Also forgot.

I know when I have accidently water spilled on the range ignition could fail.
But to leave it and forget…
How to handle thi s situation with our tenants?

I am going to check both detectors, both hard wired, again.
But it d oes not prevent tenants from forgetting to leave the gas open.

lucie

in General Discussion 2 years and 8 months ago

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shahnandersen

in General Discussion 2 years and 8 months ago

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An electric stove will require 220V to the stove. This would entail a significant amount of work and expense. If you don’t have a 220V circuit at the stove location, you’re stuck with gas.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 8 months ago

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lurker is correct. we have separate devices in this house for smoke and for the natural gas. perhaps they can now come combined, but years ago, they were separate devices.

i just checked on the placement of these (the one i have is placed in a high outlet because the outlet was there) and quick google search returned a result that said NG detectors should be “within 10′ of the appliance and within 6″ of the ceiling”.

Lurker | 2 years and 8 months ago

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just to clarify a big point for original poster–a carbon monoxide detector and a regular smoke detector for that matter won’t detect unburned natural gas. Those detect the products of combustion.
A natural gas detector is a completely different device, and as pointed out above you can buy a detector that does smoke/gas or smoke/gas/CO.
An easy solution? Get electric stoves. Since you have to replace that one range anyway, tell the tenant they get electric because they triggered the new purchase.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 8 months ago

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And home inspector is www.brownstonehomeinspection.com

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 8 months ago

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So i just turned on a large burner with no flame. The gas detector is about 2.5 feet horizontally and 3.5 feet vertically from the burner. I put the burner on high. It took about 1 minute for the detector to go off.

Keep in mind that natural gas rises. We are fortunate that we have an old clock outllet on the wall near the stove. If you do not have an outlet high up for one of these consider a battery powered one. My thoughts are if this was 6 feet away at counter level or knee level, it might be a long time before it would go off. It is not something i even want to experiment with because i’d be afraid if someone rang the door bell as i am doing it, we might have a problem.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 8 months ago

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If you have not taken delivery, i would investigate whether you can get a stove that turns the burner off if no flame is present. Ovens have them – it is called a thermocouple. They must have them for stove tops but probably pricey. That would be the best peace of mind for a landlord me thinks.

In so far as the multi gas detector. That is what we have in an outlet high on the wall about 3′ from the stove. Ng rises. (Propane sinks). Someone left a burner on here so low that the electronic ignition had not been triggered, so it was quiet. We were all in the house. The person who left the burner on was in the dining room about 15′ from the stove and i was about 25′ away. The alarm sounded before we smelt the gas.

These gas detectors were pricier and harder to find a decade ago. Now they are common. They do have to be replaced every 3 or so years. We are on our 3rd one and i believe they alert as they fail. These are not smoke detectors so cooking does not set thrm off.

If i have nothing to do later, i might turn the gas on and wait t o see how long it takes for the alarm to go off; if you hear of a gas explosion in queens later and you don’t hear from me, you know what happen.

Guest User | 2 years and 8 months ago

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The city is terrified of gas lately. If Con Ed did not put a red tag on the 2nd floor stove then there is no defect. Old is not defective. 3 years old is not even considered old. Not brand new is not defective. Once a new stove goes over 5 years then it gets into the range where it begins to be able to be considered old because it is hard to find repair parts if it is not a high end model. If you want to take another action you could request Precision Appliance Service (718) 266-2545 https://bklynservice.com perform a preventive maintenance inspection. Give them the heads up of what happened and that you think there are no actual issues and that this is more of a CYA job. I haven’t found an appliance repair vendor better qualified or more reasonable than them

lucie | 2 years and 8 months ago

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Tenant sent me the picture of the ticket warning that national grid guys put on the stove before shutting it.
It says that this appliance has a problem and problem listed is something about knobs. The stove was functional before they turned it off.

We already ordered new stove from HD. It came to 1K+ with installation.
We decided to swallow it to be on a safe side ( we checked our records again, the turned off stove was purchased not 15, but 10 years ago. This is our second tenant family with this stove).
Also we ordered plug in gas leak detectors for all 3 tenants.
They forgot to turn off the stove and then complain that carbon monoxide detectors are not working.
I have checked and sent them an information that carbon monoxide and smoke detectors do not detect cooking gas in the air.
So. We bought special gas detectors to be, again, on the safe side.

Still it looks somewhat odd. It seems beyond a reasonable wear and also it feels we have no protection against this as landlords.
What are your thoughts on this?
Feedback is greatly appreciated.
How often do you replac e gas stoves in tenants units?
Second floor tenant wrote that national grid guys “recommended” their stove to be replaced too (3 years old) because the handles are loose and “replacement handles tend to perform bad”.
Does this sound strange?

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 8 months ago

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And 11 is a good time to start teaching kids how to cook full on 7 course meal in case they ever get the munchies when they are in high school..

Guest User | 2 years and 8 months ago

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Take action to prevent future recurrence in case tenants do not teach their kid to properly use stove. Knob covers are so annoying they do not get used. Oven knob locks are much more effective and less annoying if your knob type will allow for use. These are the kind I use. There are others that are similar in design
https://www.amazon.com/Vadiff-Silicone-Stove-Child-Safety/dp/B07HGKP64D/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=2AMJWQFTOJOYF&keywords=Vadiff+Silicone+Gas+Stove+Child+Safety+Knob+Locks+%7C+Oven+Knob+Guard+%285+Pk%29%28Gray%29&qid=1668262042&sprefix=vadiff+silicone+gas+stove+child+safety+knob+locks+oven+knob+guard+5+pk+gray+%2Caps%2C98&sr=8-3

cate | 2 years and 8 months ago

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Seems like a case of operator error. The child must be taught you do not leave the gas going without a flame, duh.

RobertGMarvin

in General Discussion 2 years and 8 months ago

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At I v e knob pop protectors are appropriate for toddlers —not eleven year olds, who are capable of knowing better.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 8 months ago

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Those stove knob protectors are a pain in the neck. It would be easier to teach children not to go near the stove.

lucie | 2 years and 8 months ago

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This is not the case. That stove is used by grownups.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 8 months ago

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Bob, there are detectors that react to multiple gases.

If a tenant who cannot teach their chidren not to touch the stove is given stove knob covers, will they use them? Those things are a pain in the neck to use.

stickerhappy | 2 years and 8 months ago

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Stove knob covers for apartments with small kids are required to prevent exactly this type of situation:

(From nyc.gov site)

Stove knob covers and permanent stove safety knobs are important fire prevention tools that make stove knobs on gas-powered stoves inaccessible to children.

Property owners of multiple dwellings are required to provide stove knob covers or permanent stove safety knobs with integrated locking mechanisms for gas-powered stoves where the owner knows or reasonably should know that a child under six years of age resides. Property owners must also provide either device in a unit without a child under age six if the tenant requests them. Property owners are required to provide either device unless there is no available device that is compatible with the knobs on the stove.

Recent amendments to section 27-2056.4 by Local Law 44 of 2022 and HPD’s stove knob rules resulted in changes further outlined below.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 8 months ago

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Get new knobs

lucie | 2 years and 8 months ago

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Actually the Natinal grid guys (according to our other tenants ) checked their stove (we bought it from home depo in 2019) and “recommended” to replace it. “Should probably get a new stove too because the knobs are loose and fall off so very hard to tell what level the stoves are turned on”

RobertGMarvin

in General Discussion 2 years and 8 months ago

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Are carbon monoxide detectors supposed to react to natural gas (methane)?

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