Sticking out a shaker door

I saw a post from stevecym

“and op, now that i think about that 5 panel door i ordered from dykes. i think we ordered a “shaker” door and i sticked it out with period trim – “panel molding”.

I was actually about to the same thing, adding mitered sticking to a bunch of shaker 4 panel doors. I’m trying to find a carpenter who can do this for me, because oddly most shops seem unable to do it for a reasonable price, it ends up coming out to like 250 bucks a door, which is a lot since I have like 20 doors to do. I’m considering doing it myself or hiring someone to do it at an hourly rate, because I don’t think it will take more than a week if you work smart. But am I wrong on this?

hkapstein

in General Discussion 4 years and 4 months ago

30

Please log in, in order to post replies!

30 replies

Newest Oldest

stevecym | 4 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5136 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5124 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "21525"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(24) "stevecymbalsky@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(30) "/forums/users/thetinkerswagon/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:05:31"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(20) "xLyD4JX1CSeJzFu7zs4j"
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(21525)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

I dont like talking money here but i can do better than 250. I was thinking 200.

hkapstein | 4 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5135 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5134 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "197623"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(9) "hkapstein"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$Bi/rarQU.AidQ5DWnWIzXSi7UikLcx/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(31) "boerumamaemailnotprovided-local"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(19) "hkapstein@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2018-06-15 18:43:24"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(14) "Helen Kapstein"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(197623)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(3) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

I hear you, man. I’m trying to get this job done at a price I can afford, and 250 a door doesn’t make it happen. I can do it myself, or import the doors for less than that. I think that’s where the machines come in. I’d love to pay 60 bucks an hour to get the job done in half the time. I’m not saying people should work for cheap and cut corners, but that we need to find a way to get the job done that works for everybody, and I’d like to get it done locally if I can.

One idea I have is to have a big moulding shop cut and miter the mouldings, and this I have quoted at about 1800 dollars, and then stick them on myself. I can probably get the mitering cost down a bit if I find a shop with a computerized mitering saw. I’m not sure how long it would take to actually nail the mouldings onto the doors, I’m thinking with a good process it shouldn’t take more than 1-2 days. Then I have to fill the nail holes, but I can probably do that when the rest of the trim is installed.

stevecym | 4 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5131 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5137 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "21525"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(24) "stevecymbalsky@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(30) "/forums/users/thetinkerswagon/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:05:31"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(20) "xLyD4JX1CSeJzFu7zs4j"
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(21525)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

urbandad: i think about 550 a day/60 an hour is fair here in the city. to go any lower puts pressure on people that is a little unfair and we begin to see people taking shortcuts to survive – both on the job, in society, and in their own lives (shortcuts that anyone reading this would not want in their lives, for their families). if you are dropping this stuff at a shop, ok. but if they are working on site they should be licensed and ensuring that helps keep people out of the shadows and working for the greater good, paying into the system. i can see someone starting out charging less and someone starting out can certainly get through this-

there was an interesting story on NPR yesterday about programs designed to help people by pass the traditional four year college degree programs by going to trade school and as i listened to that i thought of all the times i have heard these reporters (and people in educated circles around this city) go on about this subject without addressing the other side of it and that is, if we want Americans and our youth to gravit ate back to this work, we can not expect adults to do it on 25 dollars an hour, off this books, no protections. we can’t live like that and no one should. not in this country. (FYI: someone charging 60 an hour, doing things on the up and up is making about 25 or 30 an hour; that is a very fair wage to you and them).

they have automatic saws that cut both sides at ones. set it up and go. but that is a pricey machine and their you forgo the cost of labor for the cost of the machine. it might be a wash.

hkapstein | 4 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5134 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5136 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "197623"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(9) "hkapstein"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$Bi/rarQU.AidQ5DWnWIzXSi7UikLcx/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(31) "boerumamaemailnotprovided-local"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(19) "hkapstein@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2018-06-15 18:43:24"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(14) "Helen Kapstein"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(197623)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(3) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Thanks DorkofWindsor. As usual, once I start to dig into it, the prices start going down. Now looking at 150 per door which is getting better. So that’s about 2250 in labor for 15 doors. 4 days work by steve’s estimate, so labor cost around 550 per day or 60 bucks an hour. With the right tools and equipment, I think we could probably get it down a little more. I can’t see getting a carpenter for less than 300 a day. So 4 days of labor would be 1200 on site with all tools supplied, maybe figure another 200 for shop materials. So perhaps around 100 per door would a pretty good price. But it may be possible to do the job in 2 days. So we’re getting close, but I have some other shops coming back soon. If you had an automatic cut off and miter machine, this job would probably be a 1 day project.

dorkofwindsor | 4 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5137 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5135 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "176774"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "dorkofwindsor"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$Bov.472kQmY8OGlKN.dDXa5nt5gnOG0"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "dorkofwindsor"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(23) "dorkofwindsor@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(28) "/forums/users/dorkofwindsor/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:25:48"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(13) "dorkofwindsor"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(176774)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

urban dad: 10″ compound miter saw with finish blade and make a fence w / stop block. Pancake compressor with finish nail gun + some glue. rly not hard, get your setup right and go; repetitive work is easy. this guy is doing window and door casings but same idea. There are a million ideas for fences and stop blocks, you won’t need one this extensive, there are a ton on YT, but same concept:

https://youtu.be/-Uiey1ZOyW4

hkapstein | 4 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5136 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5131 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "197623"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(9) "hkapstein"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$Bi/rarQU.AidQ5DWnWIzXSi7UikLcx/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(31) "boerumamaemailnotprovided-local"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(19) "hkapstein@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2018-06-15 18:43:24"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(14) "Helen Kapstein"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(197623)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(3) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Ha thanks Steve. I understand what you’re saying, and I won’t ask you for trade secrets. The grey market doors are from the UK, it just happens they still mass produce this style there. It’s european white oak I believe, but also available in some other woods and a primed version. I generally prefer to use American speies, but I think for this it will be fine, the doors are to be painted. I’m also talking to some shops in Ohio and PA, I’ll but some of the same ones you work with.

After doing some thinking, I think a trick might be to get a shop with the right equipment to run and miter cut the mouldings for me offsite. If they have the machine, it probably won’t cost more than just running the molding anyway. But I’ll have to call some shops to find if anyone can do this. I could set up two miter saws at the right distance, and probably run three mouldings at a time, but it still over 1200 cuts! Probably 2 full days just to cut the mouldings.

If I find out a way should I post or keep in secret?

stevecym | 4 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5134 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5138 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "21525"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(24) "stevecymbalsky@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(30) "/forums/users/thetinkerswagon/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:05:31"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(20) "xLyD4JX1CSeJzFu7zs4j"
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(21525)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

I am not going to tell you everything here as i am running a business. My phone number is on my website. Also, reread the last line of my reply.

As far as bringing things in from outside the country. There are so many things that speak against doing that, quality being part of it. But if we want to encourage our young people to go into this work, we have to support local talent and have to support our businesses – even if they are in pa or ohio. Just so you know, in this business we use only american made products for our customers. Maybe wood from canada. Some tools from the uk or germany. Does it cost us more? You bet. But is there is a difference in quality, absolutely.

We used to order doors from ohio. Interior slabs in poplar and even with shipping it was a deal.

JohnHancock | 4 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5131 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5137 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "22067"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(11) "JohnHancock"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$Bw9EUIInWUWur5HPQmiuDek2VIWsxp1"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(11) "JohnHancock"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(18) "steefv@hotmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2008-12-17 12:39:58"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(11) "JohnHancock"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(22067)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

This is something that Paul Valembois can do, carpenter and furniture maker/designer.
Very detail oriented

hkapstein | 4 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5138 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5136 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "197623"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(9) "hkapstein"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$Bi/rarQU.AidQ5DWnWIzXSi7UikLcx/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(31) "boerumamaemailnotprovided-local"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(19) "hkapstein@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2018-06-15 18:43:24"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(14) "Helen Kapstein"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(197623)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(3) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Thanks steve, there’s no reason to pay that much when I can get grey market doors stock for about 135 a slab plus sea freigh, but it sure is a headache. I think what I’d do is line up 10 doors, cut the vertical trim, shoot the nails, and then do the horizontal piece by piece and repeat. The problem is, how quickly can I miter cut 640 pieces of trim, even though many of them are identical. Is there a machine that can automate this for me?

stevecym | 4 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5134 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5139 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "21525"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(24) "stevecymbalsky@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(30) "/forums/users/thetinkerswagon/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:05:31"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(20) "xLyD4JX1CSeJzFu7zs4j"
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(21525)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

You should come talk to me. I am not sayi g i am going to sell you on having me do it and maybe you dont want me to do it. But 250 is probably not out of line. That many doors though and set them up right, work fast 4 doors a day. Maybe a tad less.