Sprinklers in our Brownstone??
We are about to begin turning our three family into a two family. We are planning on turning the top two floors into one duplex. We are being told we are going to have to get a sprinkler system. Its going to eat into our budget, we have fire escapes and it just makes no sense. Begging for advice.
brookeleafoster
in General Discussion 8 years and 10 months ago
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8 replies
slopegirl | 8 years and 10 months ago
Eileen that’s very helpful. I guess my Q is can we follow Augustiner’s advice not to file a change of use and still do a safe and legal renovation. I’ve thought about doing less work, but we’d like to move our kitchen to create an upper triplex and garden rental below (where now it’s a lower duplex, garden kitchen and two floor through units above) so I’m not sure you can legally do that and not trigger a change of use and then sprinklers, tax increase, etc.
Thank you so much for the good info.
eileengray | 8 years and 10 months ago
In a nutshell, the determining factors for sprinklers is the number of stories and the change of use. If the building is three stories or more plus basement and you are changing occupancy, you will need to sprinkle the entire building. If it is 2 stories plus basement or less, sprinklers are not required even if you are changing use (3 to 2 or 2 to 1 etc).
Some professionals (and expediters) may say otherwise but if you are filing an Alt 1 and have s stories plus basement, you will need a full sprinkler system.
NOTE: Cellar is the story totally below grade; basement is the floor that is 50% or less below grade and in DOB parlance is not a story although is floor area – go figure.
Does any of this make sense? Mostly no – it’s just that the DOB’s new code which applies to new buildings requires sprinkler systems in new residential buildings. The city lost track of the boroughs outside of Manhattan, where many row houses are being converted into fewer units than existed – i.e. fewer kitchens and upgraded electrical = less fire hazards.
But until the DOB can come up with an existing building code, owners are stuck between spending $50,000 plus to sprinkle or continue any (on paper) an existing use that is no longer applicable.
slopegirl | 8 years and 10 months ago
yeah what we are contemplating is almost certainly an alt2 and more likely an alt1 level reno… I did talk to an architect months ago who said sprinklers are not a foregone conclusion but it’s frustrating not to have a clear answer in advance, since it’s such a major cost and such a major addition to the house. I wonder if you already have them in the halls if that would be enough? (with fire escape) but all I know is one architect saying months ago that it’s not always a necessity even in a big reno. Have you gone to a homeowner night at dept of buildings yet? maybe that would offer some clarity
housepoor | 8 years and 10 months ago
I was led to believe that it only hits you with a change of use (for example, altering the number of apartments). So if your renovation doesn’t rise to that level, you should be unaffected. But if you are doing a (permitted) change of use, the sprinklers need to cover the entire house, not just the public hallways (which I already had). I had wanted to create a triplex by adding a penthouse while going from a 3 to a 2 family, so permits were an absolute necessity. I am sure one of the architects roaming the site can be more precise than I have been. Maybe there are differences based on which code you file under?
slopegirl | 8 years and 10 months ago
I’m curious because we own a three family and thinking of renovating. If you are required to install sprinklers are they just in stairwells or throughout the living space?
resident2 | 8 years and 10 months ago
Why are you wanting to file this? Under using a house is not a problem. (3 as a 2, as apposed to a 3 as 2). Leaving it as 3 leaves you with options in the future and avoids a huge headache of not only what the current codes are (although I would find an architect that can file under “old code” as an amended C of O if you really want to change it.) but also a huge Real Estate tax increase once you have finished.
housepoor | 8 years and 10 months ago
I looked into turning my 3 family into a 2 and was told by the DOB (in a Construction Code Determination — a way to find out what the DOB will do with your application) that the Fire Dept. requires sprinklers. It seems pretty much any Alt 1 change of use can trigger the sprinkler requirement (with some exceptions) and the Fire Department is very strict about it. Hopefully there are ways to deal with this by virtue of your fire escapes.
What I am curious about is the use of, say, a 3 family as a 2 family. I see that all the time. I’ve even seen the DOF change the status to a 2 family when the DOB records say otherwise. Do those buildings simply put up some walls, maybe move some plumbing, etc. making sure they are still within the things allowable in an Alt 2? Do you need to keep some evidence of a 3rd kitchen in place when using a 3 family as a 2? Thanks.
Augustiner | 8 years and 10 months ago
Possibly true, maybe there are ways around d t with your fire escapes – but it looks like your architect is already causing you headaches, so good luck with that.
If your current water main is not up to code to support a sprinkler system add another 10- 15k to your bill. Remember, this is just the first of many bumps in the road.
just leave it as a 3 family and use it as a 2 family, especially in the configuration you proposed.
Save money on Architects, expediters, sprinklers, other fire code issues, marriage counseling and so forth.