sprinkler questions - certificate of fitness, quarterly/annual/5-year tests

I’ve got a few questions about sprinkler inspections/tests. I’ve contacted several plumbers, but have received conflicting info. I also tried writing FDNY, but got no response.

1. I know that residential homeowners can get an S-11 Supervision of Residential Sprinkler System Certificate of Fitness, and do their own monthly inspections. However, my property is commercial – can I do the same with an S-12 Supervision of Sprinkler Systems CoF?

2. I’ve read that certain quarterly/annual inspections/tests may be required, depending on the type of sprinkler system. But I’ve been unable to find a definitive source that lists them, which systems require them, and which need to be performed by someone other than the owner. (Example: annual flow test.)

3. I was told when I bought the building that FDNY would send me a notice every 5 years to perform a “live” flow test. I’ve read that an owner should *not* attempt to schedule this until receiving notice from FDNY. It’s been 10 years, and I have not received any notices or violations. Can I really just keep ignoring it – or does that risk getting hit with multiple retroactive violations?

I know the above is pretty involved for a general discussion forum. But as mentioned, I’ve tried contacting “expert” sources, and gotten conflicting answers or no answers.

If someone has an expert that they trust, who isn’t going to try and upsell me on a $1000/year plan for visual inspections that I can do myself, then I’d be grateful for the recommendation.

way2gaby

in General Discussion 3 years ago

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justinromeu26 | 3 years ago

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I was in commercial, mostly without the fire department connection. We did not have annuals but things have changed in recent years.

way2gaby | 3 years ago

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Aha – excellent! I’m hoping that the non-mention of commercial properties means I just need the monthlies and the 5-year. (My zone has a residential overlay, but the building itself has a commercial C of O, and nobody lives here.)

Thanks so much for the reference. Hopefully, this thread helps other people with the same questions.

justinromeu26 | 3 years ago

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Read chapter 903.5 of the fire code. The annual flow is for single room occupancies and tenements converted to such. R2 residences get a 30 month. And r3 they just say keep it in working order.

I saved the code in case you can not find it.

way2gaby | 3 years ago

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Thanks for the further info. I do have a “siamese” on the front of the building. But my understanding was that only needed the 5-year test. No roof tanks, no pumps, no high-rise.

So far, I’ve never received anything from FDNY – no notices, no violations. On the one hand, I don’t want to encourage their scrutiny by suddenly filing a bunch of inspections/tests… But neither do I want to get a call years from now saying they’re slapping me with 20 years of retroactive penalties. I’d really prefer to just wait until I get a violation, and then correct it by performing the inspection/test in question, as you mentioned.

I take it that the monthlies aren’t reported to FDNY at all, just recorded locally? And obviously, the 5-year is filed with FDNY. Do you have any memory about whether the quarterlies and annuals involved reporting to the city?

justinromeu26 | 3 years ago

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Banon, it looks like residential 3 family get the annual. This is tentitive. I found it on a vendors site. Google what nyc buildings get an annual sprinkler flow test.

justinromeu26 | 3 years ago

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Bannon, in any buildings that i was in that did NOT have a fire department connection in front of the building, we did not have quarterly or annuals. It seems to me that the connection and whether the building is high rise or not and has roof tanks and pumps changes these things.

That person i mentioned advised that if you get a violation, you have 35 days to correct. This is common. Been there many, many times over many issues and we often just signed the back of the violation and sent it in and it went away. Once or twice we had to appear.

I would get that s-12 and sign a sheet yourself. Chain your osy valve open and hang it on that chain.

I might look this up .

way2gaby | 3 years ago

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Yes – it’s a very small building. In fact, I’m the only tenant. I think there’s like a dozen sprinkler heads, and they’re all recessed in the ceiling. Very little to do for the visual inspections, which is why I’d like to get a Cert of Fitness and do that part myself.

It’s the quarterly/annual stuff that I’m most unclear about at this point. Multiple sources say it “depends on the type of system”, but I’ve been unable to find a source in the code, FDNY website, etc. that outlines what that actually means.

justinromeu26 | 3 years ago

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so banon, if you have a small building the cost of this should be very reasonable. i hate to say it to people on here, but before i knew i could get the certificate for the sprinkler inspection, we had All State doing them in a building i managed. all that guy did was come in and see that i had a wrench and 6 sprinkler heads in my office and he signed the form and left. he might have looked at the over the stem and yoke valve to see that it was chained but even that i am not sure of and he looked at nothing else on the system because he was not required to. we opted to keep them around as the service was so cheap, we felt it was better to have a relationship in case anything ever went wrong. (later, when i did this in another building, i put the form on a wire hanging on the OSY valve so that no one could say i did not check the valve as i signed the form).

i might try to find you the part of this in the fire code and i will post a link.

way2gaby | 3 years ago

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Thanks again – I’ll reach out o Koreen. It sounds like the quarterly / annual test requirements remain a mystery. It’s sort of unbelievable this info isn’t publicly available. (I understand that it’s technical – but it’s not rocket science.)

Hopefully, Koreen & the people at AFSI are willing to work with me to come up with a solution that lets me handle at least the monthlies myself. Most of the other places I’ve contacted have offered only a package deal, been unable to provide links/references dictating which tests are actually necessary – and of course, the various proposals all contradict each other on that point.

justinromeu26 | 3 years ago

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it looks like you do need the s-12, for a plain water system that i assume is run off the city main. they have changed the titles of a few of these and the one i had was not an s-12.

so i called Koreen at Automatic Fire Sprinkler Installations. 718-336-2767. these people were recommended to me by a customer of mine and i called them once before and they were very free with information.

it seems that for them to take an account performing the 30 day inspection, they first have to perform a test on the system to make sure it is working the way it should. they will also look at the system to figure out the cost to do the thirty day – all accounts are different.

if you have a fire dept connection, things change (price wise). also, some systems require not only the five year you ask about but also an annual. i worked in a couple of buildings that required the 30 inspection and five year but for some reason we did not have to have annuals. that was nearly 20 years ago and things may have changed.

I conveyed your concern about getting a violation for not having the five year to koreen. she told me that if you get a violation, you have 35 days to comply. it seems that if you do not comply with in 35 days but have requested the test and get a date, that will suffice in making the violation go away. this is how i recall this system working as anytime we got violations, we would send in a letter of compliance and the violations went away.

i am sure koreen can answer your questions. i am also going to send a link to this post to her and i hope she can correct anything i am saying that is wrong or add to it.

way2gaby | 3 years ago

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Thanks for the speedy reply. It does sound like you’ve got a lot of the info I’m looking for, and anything you can dig up, or contacts you can give would be greatly appreciated.

The $1000 figure was an average – I got quotes ranging from $525 – $2500. The more expensive ones presumably included the annual flow test. But it was such a mishmash of answers, regarding what was actually required, that I gave up asking.

Plus, with backflow tests, local law 152, property tax, etc. etc. – it’s a significant bite out of my income. I’m just a one-man business who was lucky enough to buy a tiny building to work in – so I’ve got no tenant to pass these costs on to.

justinromeu26 | 3 years ago

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I used to have to comply with all of this when i actually worked in commercisl buildings. I know i have an expired cert of fitness for commercial at home and i will look at it and see if it matches what you are talking about and if it does not i will try to see what has changed and what the work around is. I am thinking there was one sprnkler inspection cert for all but they had something called a “city wide” and that covered all as well.

I was the one who did the 30 day inspections in the buildings.

Also, i posted the name of a firm on here that does the thirty day inspections and i spoke to them. They are on utica ave. I dont recall the price going near 1000 for a year. I will get their name later.

The other things you ask about, we had to have those done but i forget the details. Maybe some of this will come back to me. When i worked in buildings it was my job to get these answers. I suppose you have scoured the fdny website.