Separate thermostat for tenant
My two family brownstone (garden apartment and triplex) has one thermostat for the whole house. I’m thinking of installing a second thermostat for the garden apartment (will be rented out) so that they can control their own heat. Some have advised me that will be easier to just install a second boiler and hook up the apartment’s radiators to this new boiler. Any advice?
Guest User | 8 years and 6 months ago
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no-permits | 8 years and 6 months ago
unless you’re out of town for months on end, i don’t think this would be worthwhile. unless you’re doing a full renovation…
slopefarm | 8 years and 6 months ago
My $.02. If this is a steam system, and perhaps even if hot water, check your system out, makes sure it is working well, the radiators are sized correctly and balanced, and the rooms largely heat up and cool down together. Set reasonable, and not stingy temps. If there are any rooms in the rental that tend to run particularly cold after you have done all of the above (extensions, etc.), install baseboard electric in that room that the tenant controls on the tenant’s electrical bill. Whatever increment more you pay on your heat is worth it for the savings in capital expenditures.
lsp | 8 years and 6 months ago
@dani348 If I wanted to give a tenant control over the heating in their unit, I would prefer a system where the tenant’s usage could somehow be tracked or isolated. That way a tenant who set the temperature high could be charged accordingly.
daveinbedstuy | 8 years and 6 months ago
What Master Plumber said. If it’s a hot water system, you can theoretically have as many zones as you want provided you replumb the system at the boiler and then provide new feed piping and returns to those different zones which is easier said than done in older brownstone type houses.
Master Plvmber | 8 years and 6 months ago
You’re not going to zone a residential steam system.
I like thermostatic radiator valves (TRVs) but they don’t turn the boiler on. They just compensate for an oversized radiator.
lsp | 8 years and 6 months ago
There are a number of ways you can do this. One is to zone (https://www.bobvila.com/articles/zoned-heating-systems/) your heating using just one boiler. Another is to install a second boiler. Still another is installing thermostatic steam vents (https://www.thisoldhouse.com/how-to/how-to-install-radiator-thermostat). Each has pros and cons in a two unit older house like yours.
Keep in mind that you still need to heat your unit while you are away or your pipes might freeze.
kurl | 8 years and 6 months ago
Another option is to get an Ecobee or another thermostat with wireless remote sensors. Will be by far the cheapest option, but won’t let the other unit control their heat explicitly. It will leverage motion and temperature sensors to ensure that their apartment is heated correctly when it’s in use. We have found it very useful in our house where certain floors are much better insulated than others.
dougb | 8 years and 6 months ago
I’d suggest that you look into thermostatic vent valves for one pipe steam systems. They are a direct replacement for your radiator’s steam vents, can be installed yourself and provide you with control at the point of individual radiators. You wouldn’t want to use these near where your thermostat is, but they do work well for preventing overheating elsewhere (start by getting one or two and trying them in rooms that tend to overheat) and also meet your objective of giving your tenants some control over their heat. Heat will still only come on when it is being called for by the main thermostat, but will cut off at individual radiators as each room comes up to its desired temperature. But for revamping the entire system I defer to Master Plvmber – don’t think that for the cost of a revamp you’d ever get to a payback point from being able to save energy by turning down heat throughout your unit when you are out of town (unless you pack up and leave for the whole winter every year.)
Master Plvmber | 8 years and 6 months ago
For this ^^^^^ a second boiler is not needed. You’d use the water from the existing boiler.
Master Plvmber | 8 years and 6 months ago
There are several ways you could do this. Separating only the garden level allows you to use the cheapest and easiest methods. You can install new radiators and connect piping from each of them to the boiler, more accurately, to each other and then to the boiler, and use a small circulator pump to move water from the boiler to the radiators to heat them up. A separate thermostat on the garden level would turn the pump on and off. Some minor additional wiring would turn the flame of the boiler on and off without actually making steam when the rest of the home doesn’t want heat. This is done fairly frequently but few plumbers know how to deal with the piping and wiring correctly. I know because I fix these installations all winter long.
NeoGrec | 8 years and 6 months ago
I understand your question and my apologies if my comment was too rhetorically framed. I believe you would need to install a 2nd boiler that would service only the rads in the rental apartment. Two thermostats on one continuous loop system is a contradiction in terms.
Guest User | 8 years and 6 months ago
It’s a one-house system currently, controlled by one thermostat. We’re interested in switching to two thermostats (for reasons above), but we’re not sure of the most efficient way to go about that. I’m looking for advice and suggestions on making that switch.
NeoGrec | 8 years and 6 months ago
What am I missing? Surely you can ONLY have two thermostats if you have two boilers? But if it’s a one-house system, it can only be controlled by one thermostat, no?
Guest User | 8 years and 6 months ago
Hi there! We have steam heat. The logic is two-fold. Yes, it’s about doing a nice thing for the tenant. But also, we don’t want to be wasting energy and money to heat the whole house at times when we are out of town.
slopefarm | 8 years and 6 months ago
Right, EJR. We could spin our wheels here all day, but we are really just talking to ourselves until the OP is clearer about the type of heat system and the reasons for wanting tenant control within the rental unit.
EJR | 8 years and 6 months ago
Practically speaking, while this is certainly a nice thing for the landlord to consider, there may be more practical considerations beyond being a good landlord. Perhaps the landlord also wants the tenant to pay for their own heat, as opposed to heat being included, as Slopefarm implies, but which is not clear from the OP’s post. Perhaps the tenant complains constantly that it’s too cold. Perhaps the tenant is too warm and to counter this opens the windows, which wastes heating fuel, and could, I suppose, mess with the temperature in the owner’s unit (depending on the location of the thermostat).
ellenlourie | 8 years and 6 months ago
So, it is just for tenant comfort. Great landlords still exist in NY. You can offer local room to room temperature control in both steam and hot water applications.
slopefarm | 8 years and 6 months ago
Big question — what kind of heat system do you have? Very hard to advise without knowing what would be involved in separating the two units for heating.
Also – what kind of problems have past tenants had? too hot? too cold? Or is this just to offer an amenity? A lot of tenants might prefer “heat included” to the ability to control the temp.
EJR | 8 years and 6 months ago
> @Gennady of Absolute Mechanical Co Inc
> What is the reason to consider installation of 2nd thermostat?
Per the OP, it’s “so that [the tenant] can control their own heat”. It’s an interesting question and I’d be interested in hearing from the professionals here how best to tackle this problem.