Roof gutter

I did not find Roof subforum, so it will be in General discussion.

We have an original gutter. Large, copper, deep 12 inches.
About a year and a half ago we started to have problem during torrent rains:
Small rooms on the third, second and first floor got flooded with water running insode from the top of window boxes. It is the small room closest to the downspout.
Gutter is kept clean.
We eved did some work removing pluster from inside and looking for the holes/ cracks, patching areas that looked suspicious on the second and third floors.
Also removed and rebuilt window boxes.

The preoblem persisted. Obviously we have some holes, cracks in the gutter itself.

So, we decided to replace the gutter.
We had 4 roofers to look at the project.
All suggested to replace gutter.
We had no problems with the ballpack quotes on the spot.
All 4 explained what they are going to do and all of the explanations were different!
then all except of the last one just dis not come back with the formal estimation.
We would go with the last one, but…

Initially he said that 6 inches newer gutter will be sufficient. However we had a problem with it. We do not want to reduse the size of the gutter that we have right now (12 inches), large and deep.
We already have a problem once in a year where the gutter is not enough to hold all the water ( our roof is on a larger side, 1300sf, house is 20X66, I know for sure that it is 66′ from inside). In the event of the flood of 2.4 inches per hour water is going over the gutter down the wall and contribute to the flood in the english basement.

Roofing contractor suggested custom gutter, we are OK with the price, but later on he called and said that what he found is only fabrication on 2 pieces, 10 feet each, and he does not recommentd it.
He suggest to go back to 6″ out of the box gutter and says it will be sufficient. On the question if water will not drain fast enough from the roof when we have more then 2 inches per hour he said he think it will be enough, or at least it will go overboard.

So… we are back to the step one.
I tried to look at gutter capacity calculation, but got a bit overwhelmed. I should go back to this calculation, once I got the result that it could be enough ( they have tables), next time – that it will not be enough with 6 inches.
What is your thoughts?
do you think 6″ would be enought in case of the rain above 2 inches per hour for the roof along the 20 feet side?
I also asked about an extra drain on the other side and extra downspout. One of the contractors (not the last one) said it would be against the code.
We built the whole system in our small backyard to accomodate extra inch of rain above 1.7 inches that go to the sewer line from the gutter – 100+ cubic feet of water, so, we have some extra space to redirect some extra water for a temporary storage and that draining it after the storm passes.

But we have to decide on new gutter, so,
1. We resolve internal flood from gutter cracks.
2. We will not reduce an existing gutter capacity.

opoddubnaya.bootsoft

in General Discussion 7 months ago

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Brownstone Home Inspection | 7 months ago

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Hey Olga, i just saw your reply to me here. this is a problem with this new site: it does not push forward posts that have new activity on them and then those replies get missed.

i did send you an email. please understand, that is a lot that you have posted below and at some point i will read it and think about it but some will be best spoken about on site. and know, to do any of this, i have to consider the entire roof and perhaps issues on the back of the house. btw, all of my roof inspections start at the ground level with a pair of binoculars.

if you did not get my email, check your spam folder. I do enjoy meeting and working for regular contributors to this forum.

steve

cate | 7 months ago

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A sheet metal contractor might be able to restore your existing copper gutter. To get some ideas of who could do this work, you might try contacting those who’ve handled similar projects nearby. Here are some details for a copper gutter historic restoration on a Brooklyn school: https://copper.org/applications/architecture/awards/2015/nyc-public-school-39/ Here is something at the Van Cortlandt Manor House: https://hudsonvalley.org/article/sustainable-preservation/ You may find more ideas by googling something like “copper gutter restoration historic preservation New York”

opoddubnaya.bootsoft | 7 months ago

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Steve, I sent you an email.
We think it is thinning gutter and it is caked with tar.
Tar could develop cracks with long time exposure.
We did roof in 2010, I think, I do not remember better, but I am not sure if they did anything to the gutter during this time.
We did replace skylights with new copper skylights, but I am not sure the job included gutter as we did not have any problems with the gutter till the last year ,
If it it is so, then tar at the bottom the gutter is more then 20 years old for sure.
I will wait and see what Steve says but most likely the cracked tar and holes in the copper is the problem, because leak is located only over one windows stack, closest to the downspout ( and we checked and rechecked the wall around the top window on this stack – no cracks, holes, etc.).
Common sense says to keep gutter in place, it is huge and no new ones like this to be found (we searched, if I am wrong I would be grateful if somebody points me into direction of fabricator of similar gutters).

Theoretically, existing gutter could be fixed stationary.
Old tar removed, holes resoldered with small impact torch, so no holes for the next 50 or so years.
But who does this? I googled original copper gutter repair in Brooklyn – nothing to be found.
Roofers we talked all want to throw away old gutter and install cheap smaller version, nobody seems to want to do a repair.
One company that claims they repair of old copper gutters in NJ does not serve our zip.
Is it such a crazy idea? If not, who can do this kind of project?
We were quoted from $3.5K to $5.5K+ ( most expensive is for new similar copper gutter, later we were told that nobody provides 20′ 12″ new copper gutters, so, the higher end is irrelevant).
I hardly believe due to the size of the area repaired that restoration of an old gutter would be more expensive: materials are minimal – to compare to the replacement, equipment is the same.

Brownstone Home Inspection | 7 months ago

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so the back of the house should have a facia board and that should lap down over the siding and that alone will keep water out so long as the roof is adhered the way it should be and sticking out over the facia. mine does this and the water goes right into the gutter. in the absence of a gutter, a drip edge should be installed under the membrane (and over the felt) and all of these are supposed to be adhered but often are not and water goes in under the membrane at the edge. they also make gutters with a flashing to go up and under the membrane.

Pay me my fee for a roof inspection and i will come there and tell you what is going on and how it should be. take the guess work out of it.

i did have to fix mine after we bought this house and yes, it the water appeared two floors below in the kitchen.

cate | 7 months ago

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These are very good questions. We seem to have a similar problem with torrential rains overwhelming our regular 6 inch gutter. Then water gets under the siding and starts coming into the inside of the house along the back wall. I don’t know how to fix it and I would like some answers also. One thing I would suggest: We had some problems with water dripping inside the window boxes, and caulking the window sills outside fixed that. Another thing: Our gutter is for a pitched roof and we have a flat roof, so we’re looking into whether this is contributing to the problem.

Brownstone Home Inspection | 7 months ago

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i just read you entire post.

you really need to have someone who represents you look at the entire situation and find how that water is getting in before you start changing gutters. i work on a lot of roofs and capacity of gutters is not usually a problem. even if they flood, water should not be getting into the house. (this is a first for me, the gutter being the issue. i have had clogged gutters become the issue but even then, how the water gets in is the ultimate issue).

the problem with a lot of contractors is they will listen to the customer and offer the customer what they are asking for without challenging the customer. the other problem is, and i see this with roofers all the time, they only look at the roof and if a customer says they have leaks and need a new roof, they will not turn around and tell them the problem is in the masonry. so they get a new roof and still have the masonry problems.

steve

Brownstone Home Inspection | 7 months ago

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Have you seen the reviews on here for the roof inspections and leak investigations i am doing?

forget the roofers you are calling. call me. for the modest Brooklyn price i charge you will get a roof inspection along with a leak investigation and this will be presented to you in a written report.

i am also finding that humidity levels in cellars are too high and moisture levels in the wood in the cellars is too high so i might begin offering combined roof/cellar inspections.

my price is peanuts for this city.

steve
www.brownstonehomeinspection.com