Retain common hallway in garden rental?
We will be renovating the garden level of the townhouse that we are buying to make it into a one floor rental unit (it’s currently part of a duplex rental with the parlor floor). I’m wondering if people recommend keeping the staircase separate from the apartment in a walled-off hallway so that we can have direct access to the basement from the upper triplex. This seems like a good idea but it eats up valuable space in the rental apartment. Another possibility would be to create a staircase from the trap door to the basement that is in the backyard. But seems inconvenient to have to go outside to reach the basement. The house is 20X37.
WRPListings
in General Discussion 8 years and 1 month ago
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17 replies
slopefarm | 8 years and 1 month ago
Brucef’s suggestion is clever and worth consideration. At the end of the day, however, you would still be going outside and coming back in the downstairs entrance to access the cellar. Also, a question — how much would that part of the reno cost, and how much additional rent would it bring in (i.e., how long to pay for itself)?
Guest User | 8 years and 1 month ago
I would like to install a cellar entrance in iur backyard (we don’t have a chute, front or back). Any idea what kind of contractor would do that?
kleeen | 8 years and 1 month ago
So we went a different route, we decided to keep the internal stair from garden to parlor since we had young kids. It has been so much easier to bring strollers and scooters in through the garden and into our unit and leave stuff rather than having to go up the outside stairs with them to the parlor level. As they are getting older it’s becoming less of an issue but the convenience of that second entrance is still really nice.
We do have a rental on the garden level and It did eat into the space but we have not had issues with renting it.
WRPListings | 8 years and 1 month ago
Yes, this makes sense brucef, great idea. Thanks!
brucef | 8 years and 1 month ago
Meanwhile, the existing stair down to the cellar can usually be reinstalled from the cellar up to the joist that previously held the bottom of the stair that you have removed.
Stairs require headroom, which usually would preclude changing direction, but because the garden to parlor stair is removed, it has headroom either way.
What do with the narrow passageway previously used to continue down to the cellar?
That valuable square footage is now up for grabs. I’ve always enlarged the garden apartment, either by making closets there (as the hallway wall is technically a “stiffening” wall).
Does it make sense now?
brucef | 8 years and 1 month ago
A normal (three window with stairwell in 3rd window) brownstone will have the largest staircase start at the up the stoop main entrance, and go up to the 2nd floor (the one above the parlor).
Because the stairs are stacked, the stair from the parlor down to the garden floor would necessarily terminate into a small hallway/foyer immediately inside the under stoop entrance. Make sense so far? (There will be a quiz next period)
That stair (the parlor to garden) is the stair the OP questioned removing. Removing this stair gains floor space under the main stair that goes up to 2nd floor. This space is perfect for bike/carriage/storage.
Meanwhilear stairs
WRPListings | 8 years and 1 month ago
I’m having a hard time picturing this brucef….so you add a new staircase, door, and entry to the basement where the entrance to the rental unit is? Do you mean under the stoop itself?
brucef | 8 years and 1 month ago
I’ve done this a couple times. The trick is reversing the direction of the garden to cellar stairs so that the flight goes straight down from the small foyer inside the under stoop entry way. This eliminates the need for the extra narrow hallway back to the head of the cellar stairs.
Then we create closets out of the old hallway, opening into the rental unit. I’ve even made a walk in closet out of the rear of the hallway that essentially gets used as a bedroom. This makes the garden floor apartment much bigger and more attractive. Yes you will get more rent and attract a superior tenant.
gemby | 8 years and 1 month ago
And garshobi1, I mean no offense to your layout. It’s very easy to imagine things to be very inconvenient when they are hypothetical. In actually they all have their pros & cons, and I feel like we’d make any of those layouts work just fine 🙂
gemby | 8 years and 1 month ago
We’re considering the same question and are strongly leaning towards taking space from the garden unit to create a hallway connecting the upper triplex to the cellar.
However, when we were looking at houses, I noticed most of the flips only had cellar access through the garden apartment. They marketed the cellar as a “rec room” and claimed the garden unit could bring in considerably more rent as it was a “duplex”.
I’m curious if anyone has a house that’s configured this way and how it works– how much additional rent do you think the extra space brings in? Do you regret only having access to the mechanicals through the rental? Maybe it’s possible to give the bulk of the space to the garden apt, except for a small mechanical room accessible via the yard?
While I think we’ll ultimately go with option A (stealing space from garden for a pass-through), the in-between option is the least appealing to me. I’d rather have it be a convenient space for me, or a convenient space for the renter. A cellar that’s only accessible through the backyard seems convenient for no one.
calion | 8 years and 1 month ago
Jeez. Didn’t mean to offend you with our layout, rkilkenny.
We did the work sixteen years ago and it’s not an inconvenience. Going outside is worth all the extra space for ourselves and our tenant. The hatch is under the deck and so it’s never got snow on it. We monitor all our utilities from the parlor floor, have a pump and alarms, so the extra, say…minute it takes us to respond to an issue with the mechanicals isn’t a problem. And since we didn’t remove any staircases future owners can easily restore access from the triplex if they so choose. It’s worked well for us, mhw365. Best of luck to you.
lsp | 8 years and 1 month ago
You do not mention what your basement contains – do you use it for storage? Is that where your utility boxes, meters and boiler room are located? What about the main shut off valves for water and gas? What else? Now imagine yourself having to shovel snow off of the trap door in the dead of winter or getting full dressed at midnight in order to access your basement from the backyard. What may seem like an inconvenience now may actually prove injurious in practice.
calion | 8 years and 1 month ago
We live in a triplex over rental, and our house was configured with an internal private hall down to the basement, which ate up a lot of the tenant’s space. We floored over the stairs to down to the garden, which allowed us to reclaim the space under our stairs on the parlor floor (which now holds a kitchen pantry/coat rack/shoe rack/cleaning closet/gloves/mittens/toys and recycling). We created access to the basement from the backyard by enlarging the old rear chute and putting concrete steps down with a flat steel door above. So, to access the basement we go down from our rear deck into the basement. Occasionally get rained on for about 15 seconds, but other than that, it’s not a hassle at all. Best thing about it is that the garden has access to the basement, so all the tools, gardening stuff, and kids’ toys can be stored down there. In our garden apartment, our tenant still have the stairs leading down from…well…a ceiling, but she uses the steps as a bookshelf, and the reclaimed hallway space is her office and clothes closet. I recommend it!
nick521 | 8 years and 1 month ago
Ditto, I agree with the above, I blocked off access to the cellar from the garden apartment as I use it for laundry and storage. Tenants have their own washer/dryer and some backyard access.
empathie00 | 8 years and 1 month ago
Completely agree with the above. We have an arrangement that sounds very similar to bored at work. We maintain private access to cellar (which is critical for us as it’s our workshop and gym – wouldn’t want to have to be traipsing outside at 6am in the snow to go work out in my own basement!!) and the apartment is maybe 90 sq ft smaller… I’m sure the tenant would love that extra space but as bored says, it’s your house., design with your needs in mind. Also — the arrangement we have now allows us to easily integrate the apartment back into the main house if/when we need to — just open the doors! 🙂
boredatwork | 8 years and 1 month ago
@slopefarm
Agreed. We have a triplex over garden rental. Access to the garden apartment is from under the stoop, which leads to a small hall. There are three doors off the hall: One leads to the apartment, another to a private hall that leads to the cellar, and a final door which leads to a stairway up to the triplex. The apartment loses some space with the private hall, but we gain storage there, and access to the cellar at all times. We dont give the tenant access to the cellar.
Design the building with your needs first. A good architect and a broker can give you suggestions on how to maximize your space and rental income.
slopefarm | 8 years and 1 month ago
We once lived in the garden apt of a 4-unit brownstone co-op that had the stairs removed. the extra space was nice. All four units had to access the cellar through the front or back yard. As a homeowner now, however, I can tell you I go into the cellar a lot for storage and mechanicals. I don’t think the extra rental income you would get from the extra rental space would offset the inconvenience to you. I wouldn’t do it.