Permit needed to add internal support beam?

We have a question about adding a structural beam and two posts. Our renovation has gone way off track which is leading us to consider ditching our architect and having a GC pull electrical and plumbing permits to renovate our kitchen and baths. He also said he could put in a 10-foot support beam across our 2nd floor parlor kitchen and two beams down to the basement without a permit as long as it is contained within the existing structure (not external). We are not moving any walls and only adding support Does this sound correct or do risk a DOB fine if caught? We would love to not have to file this through an architect.

The background if you want to read further is we hired an architect so we could legally open up the backside of the 2nd floor parlor kitchen with more windows and also add a top floor bath. Our renovation went off track when we found out after the DD plans were presented that we have to 2-hour fire rate the backside exterior wall of our 4-story wood frame townhouse if we touch a single inch of the exterior wall (estimated cost of exterior wall 80- 100K) which clearly we didn’t budget for. We only found this out after the structural engineer we hired through our architect had given his report after probes. The structural engineer came after the DD set was presented and basically approved by us. We are more than 10K in architect fees into the job, plus probes and Structural Engineer retainer so close to 15K. The kitchen plans we have don’t work now because we can’t change the window placement at all (let alone add more) unless we 2-Hour fire rate. To us it really seems like the architect put the cart before the horse here and should have known better to go to the DD phase before structural engineer report.

We would love some opinions here on whether the permit is needed for the beam and posts or anything else you want to add.

Guest User | 7 years and 1 month ago

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murph | 7 years and 1 month ago

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What’s that metal sheeting that I see in the picture–the roof? Are you contemplating adding weight up there? Patio or “green roof”? Definitely need permits. How about spray-on insulation while you’re at it?

Guest User | 7 years and 1 month ago

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Then you’re good with the LAA permit.

Guest User | 7 years and 1 month ago

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We would not be moving any walls. Just moving placement of appliances in the kitchen, custom cabinets and switching orientation of bath tub. and toilet.

Guest User | 7 years and 1 month ago

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We would not be moving any walls. Just moving placement of appliances in the kitchen, custom cabinets and switching orientation of bath tub. and toilet.

Guest User | 7 years and 1 month ago

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If “simply updating the kitchen and baths” means swapping out the fixtures or re-routing of plumbing lines then you can get away with an LAA permit. However, if you are moving walls you should file with the DOB.

chemosphere | 7 years and 1 month ago

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depends on how much your neighbors like calling 311.

Guest User | 7 years and 1 month ago

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Thanks for the feedback. Good point on the AIA agreement. I will take a look.

Just to clarify if we didn’t put in the beam and posts and were simply updating the kitchen and baths could we get by without filing with the DOB and just having the GC file electrical and plumbing permits?

Guest User | 7 years and 1 month ago

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Thanks for the feedback. Good point on the AIA agreement. I will take a look.

Just to clarify if we didn’t put in the beam and posts and were simply updating the kitchen and baths could we get by without filing with the DOB and just having the GC file electrical and plumbing permits?

JPDA | 7 years and 1 month ago

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Architect here, and yes you absolutely need permits for any structural work as well as your kitchen and bath renovation. Your GC cannot pull the necessary permits without having an architect or engineer file the work.

Wood frame buildings are a big red flag for the DOB and they will frequently trigger seemingly unreasonable requirements for additional fire protection.

I would recommend reviewing your contract with the architect since the standard AIA agreement requires them to rework the scheme, at no additional cost, if their design is coming in substantially over the budget you set out. While structural probes can reveal hidden conditions, a wood frame is generally pretty obvious from the outset.

It will almost certainly be less costly to continue to work with the architect to file the necessary updated drawings with the DOB than to start from scratch with someone else or allow the GC to do work illegally and risk a stop work order.

Good luck!

helen40

in General Discussion 7 years and 1 month ago

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Not an architect or contractor, but if you are pulling permits for electric and plumbing, which will need to be inspected, you run significant risk for being caught doing unpermitted work. Its my understanding that structural work that you describe, like new supports and columns, need to be permitted.

If you do the whole thing w/o permits, that’s a different question. But you still run the risk of a 311 call from a neighbor.