Peeling porch paint reasons?
I have pressure treated wood porch and get it repainted every 5 years (happened 3 times already, always different contractors). But the paint job this time is showing significant deterioration, peeling, cracking just 9 months later. I know this winter was -slightly- harsher than the past few, but that is no excuse, right? How can I do a postmortem to glean insights? As far as I remember, we used similar materials to the previous longer-lasting jobs. Oil primer and oil paint I saw the guys working hard for a few days just scraping and sanding (It is two floor porch).
Thanks, everyone. [PXL_20210424_190016961](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:9OwO:pxl_20210424_190016961.jpg.jpg) [PXL_20210424_185646932](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:yg4I:pxl_20210424_185646932.jpg.jpg) [PXL_20210424_185622318](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:BfWz:pxl_20210424_185622318.jpg.jpg) [PXL_20210424_185502111](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:mqqU:pxl_20210424_185502111.jpg.jpg)
ning
in General Discussion 4 years and 4 months ago
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hkapstein | 4 years and 4 months ago
Thanks, luckily I have a bunch of p100 masks and filters I stocked up on a few years back. I like to have this stuff on had so I’m not tempted to do a project without it, but now it’s hard to replace.
I have some old outdoor wood I want to clean up and I don’t want to die doing it. Maybe I’m better off to just replace it. The better shape it’s in, the more toxic it probably is.
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 4 months ago
NO. My grandfather would not burn it and no you cannot breath it in. i would sand it with a mask but i would confirm that a p100 would do it and of course we have to consider those nearby in the city. the way my grandfather spoke about this stuff, it was as if a one time exposure could kill you.
hkapstein | 4 years and 4 months ago
Is it safe to sand that material?
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 4 months ago
i recall listening to them discussing the chromated copper arsenate (thank you for the correction) on NPR when they issued the order. in the 1970’s, when i would do things that contained that stuff with my grandfather, he did not want me handling it and one time we had to burn some wood scraps and he would not burn that stuff (no he was not an environmentalist, it was about our own self preservation). some of the stories about this stuff and the painting come from him and a neighbor who had a lot to say about it. the neighbor was a professional wood worker and is still alive. if i talk to him, i might bring this product up. these things on this board, they make great conversation with people who once did all this stuff.
ning | 4 years and 4 months ago
Thank you, I have been under the weather, just getting back to this. Seems like in the US Chromated copper arsenate was banned 2003 so that is 17 years ago. I have been at the house 13 years, so can’t tell right now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromated_copper_arsenate
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 4 months ago
i am not cringing but i have heard so many stories with this stuff, that i cannot believe it? when was this? do we know when they banned copper cromum arsinate? i thing that chemical was the problem. and yes, the are often slimy wet which i would not paint.
i suspect the op’s wood may be the old chemical type, the toxic stuff.
hkapstein | 4 years and 4 months ago
Well let me tell a story that will make Steve cringe. I had to replace some 8 foot 2x4s on a porch once. I went to home depot and picked the straightest ones I could find, pressure treated of course, and wet to the touch. I also picked up paint at home depot. Some kind of “porch and patio paint”, behr probably. I installed the 2x4s and slathered on the porch paint. No primer. Just wanted to get it done. So now it’s 5 years later, and it looks perfect. It gets plenty of sun and rain, and the paint is holding up.
Now I’m not saying you should do that, but that there may be a question of luck with how your paint system interacts with the pressure treated wood, or how long ago the wood was treated, and what conditions it cured in
I think the best way to do a post mortem is to make some test patches with different processes and see what works best after a few months.
stevecym | 4 years and 4 months ago
Did they scrape the damaged material prior to the last painting? If they painted right over paint that is peeling, the new paint is going to do nothing but hide the damage for a few months.
This is what makes me suspicious: i suggested that the paint looked too thick and then cate seemed to reiterate that. Perhaps they did not put the paint on so thick as they did try to hide the old damage under it. What we might be looking at is new paint on an old peel.
Depending on the class of painter you hired, you have to tell them what to do and then watch them to be sure they do it. Its called babysitting.
The damage seems to be on the top rail and it would be a breeze to sand it all off to 120 and that is what you should do to it.
Post mortum is correct; we do it to ensure we do not make the same mistakes.
cate | 4 years and 4 months ago
“i think. could it be that they are applying to much paint and perhaps too much to soon after each coat and they a re not drying properly?” Agree. Also if they paint in the wrong conditions (temperature, humidity) there will be problems.
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 4 months ago
so i have zilch experience with pressure treated wood and don’t want any. i recall people trying to paint it when i was a teen and there were always problems. the were using copper chromium arsinate on that wood back then and i think they have made them stop using it – but i am not sure when. nasty stuff. i thought the chemical they treated it with was the issue and the new one may still be an issue.
now, i have also heard that if you let it age a year and then paint it you will have better luck. did this stuff go on the first time as soon as the wood was put in and has it been put on as soon as it peels since? so maybe scrape it and let it age a bit over the summer and try again, not in august but in the dry fall, say early october.
see the way that paint cracked? if we paint wood with to high a moisture content in say August, it will try out and shrink under the paint and pop off. and something else, those coats look kind of thick. i think. could it be that they are applying to much paint and perhaps too much to soon after each coat and they a re not drying properly?
also, i do not know how they mill that wood. but i sometimes worry that finely milled wood will not hold the paint as well. just a thought. might not apply on this kind of lumber.
i am now also wondering how that exterior primer, which has some linseed oil in it, works on a wood that already has a chemical in it – if maybe that oil is not flowing in and bonding. again just a thought, if i were calling the ben moore tech team, i would suggest that in conversation.
if you call the ben moore tech support team (i have been working with paints all my life and i still call them and have done so three times this year already) and tell them your situation and perhaps tell them what i said here, you will get a pretty good conversation going with them and they will be able to narrow this down. i would look at the pressure treated wood first though.