No CofO or I-Card for 2-fam - Permitting More of a Problem?

Within the coming months I’m looking to do some renovation work for a home that’s taxed as a 2-fam. There’s no CO, no I-Card on record (apparently I-Cards are for 3 and up), and the house is from <1899. Are there any circumstances in which filing for a new permit for either a gut or electrical work or plumbing work -- even moving a bathroom (for example) -- or anything else that doesn't change the number of units would trigger a need to get a C of O? I did some thorough searching of old posts in this forum, and I can't get an answer. There was even a link on the DOB website that someone sent that talked about 'use' which is now a 404. Is this actually a GOOD thing if I don't change the 'egress points'? Or at terrible eggshell dance where it depends on the feelings of the DOB, the experience of the architect?

soundhoner

in General Discussion 7 years and 2 months ago

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slopefarm | 7 years and 2 months ago

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We were in similar boat (pre-code house). Filed it as Alt-2, “renovate existing” etc. DOB will look at the plans and decide whether to accept the designation or require an Alt-1 filing which triggers C/O. If DOB accepts your Alt-2 plans, the sign off at the end is functionally your C/O. Careful though, as in our case, DOB thought the “as built” drawings at the end bumped our job up to an A;t-1 and it took some back and forth to convince them otherwise.

JPDA | 7 years and 2 months ago

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If you’re not changing the use, occupancy or egress no need for a new C of O.

murph | 7 years and 2 months ago

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Close but NOT exact.

murph | 7 years and 2 months ago

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Ditto. I wanted COO but got everything but. My blueprints included neighbors. The application was to build on five lots. BTW, the finished product isn’t exactly what was on the plans. Close but exact.

figtree | 7 years and 2 months ago

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If anyone is looking for paperwork on their house, the best place to start is the DOB office for your borough (they have an archives library). I went down to the one across from borough hall and got a folder with my original blueprints and all the paperwork submitted and filed to build the house. Even the plans for the garage, which was built about 8-9 years later.

sherry.parnes | 7 years and 2 months ago

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@murph where did you get those documents dated 1905? The DOB or the library?

murph | 7 years and 2 months ago

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1899 is a default date used when records were merged and real build-date was unavailable. Keep looking. My brownstone was also “1899” but I got the original plans and the application-to-build dated 1905. Maps at the Brooklyn Historical Society(McMillan Library) from before 1905 do not show any structures.

shahnandersen

in General Discussion 7 years and 2 months ago

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@soundhoner: Just to note that lots of 1- and 2- family houses without COs do have I-Card entries. I don’t know why yours does not.

jazzwalk | 7 years and 2 months ago

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We did a major renovation and do not have a COO. There were no issues with this, though perhaps that is because we kept the kitchens the same.

mozeeatupu | 7 years and 2 months ago

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>Make sure the number of kitchens stays the same.
You could try to do the kosher kitchen exemption for two kitchens

JPDA | 7 years and 2 months ago

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Your filed plans will show the DOB the existing conditions/demolition and the proposed renovation. They will simply compare the two to see how much you are changing the layout and use of the floors. You can change the number of bedrooms and interior partitions, but as Jim mentioned the key is how they read the number of families/units and how they are arranged across the floors (garden rental+upper duplex vs top floor rental+lower duplex etc).

soundhoner | 7 years and 2 months ago

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Makes sense. Don’t plan to change the number of kitchens. What if I re-arrange a bathroom location or add a bedroom or such? Is there some ‘plan’ they compare it to? How do they know what I did or didn’t do? Since there’s no I-Card or CO on record, it feels to me like there’s NOTHING on record?

Thanks

JPDA | 7 years and 2 months ago

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Make sure the number of kitchens stays the same. This is a red flag for DOB.

jimhillra | 7 years and 2 months ago

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    ["user_pass"]=>
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    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(9) "jimhillra"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(25) "info@urban-pioneering.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:06:33"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(21) "Jim Hill, RA, LEED AP"
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Minor renovations which don’t change the use (one or two family vs. 3 and up), occupancy (similar), or egress route, or add or remove floors, don’t need a C of O at all. It doesn’t sound like this should be much of an issue for you.