Need advice: Addressing HVAC & water heater issues in renovated home

Hi all. First time poster here. I need to “vent” about my situation and ask for some advice. (not sure if this should go under home buying, renovation, plumbing, or heating/cooling – I apologize if I repost snippets of this in multiple places!

I’m currently in contract on a gut-renovated 2-family townhouse in Brooklyn. Our home inspection and subsequent licensed chimney expert inspection uncovered some some sketchy installation of the HVAC systems and water heaters.

The seller initially said he’d address the issues with his team, then backtracked, asking for us to come up with a quote and give us a credit at closing. While this is probably ideal to ensure the work is done right, I’m having a hard time getting a quote for the work.

I intended on hiring the chimney expert who did the 2nd inspection has gone AWOL – after saying he’d give me a quote, he hasn’t answered emails, the phone, or texts since late December. (I don’t get it – doesn’t he want more business?)

Question 1: Who do I get a quote from – a chimney person, general contractor, plumber, HVAC, or a finisher – or should it be some combination? I’ve pondering whether a general contractor with close ties to a team of experts would be most ideal.

Question 2: any thoughts on what this should cost if I end up throwing a number at the seller? Here’s more detail on the issue. There are unknown elements here: since the walls are finished, I have to assume the worst case behind the walls in my quote – that all pipe in the walls needs to be redone.

Here’s more detail on the work:
1) the pipe from our HVAC in our parlor level to the roof is practically touching the wall next to it; there are some dodgy joints, and to make matters worse, it is very likely that the pipe leading up to the roof is single wall. (code says 2″ of clearance to the closest wall; dual-wall (B-vent) pipe should be used to further avoid risk of fire hazard.
The ask:
– replace ~25ft+ of single wall pipe with b-vent [HVAC expert or gen contractor?]
– Determine if adjacent wall (separates HVAC closet and 1/2 bath) can be moved a couple of inches or tilted to give proper clearance and do it. [gen contractor]
My guess: $200 in materials (mostly pipe), 1-3 days of labor (let’s say $400-1000)
Worst case: $1200

2) In the basement, there are 2 water heaters and another HVAC.
a) The other water heater along with an HVAC currently vent through a long boxed in pipes (maybe 8′ distance?) then out a chimney. It appears as if single wall pipe was used again, and should ideally be replaced. Given the length of the line, there’s some concern of backdraft as well.

The ask:
– chimney video inspection to determine whether backdraft is occurring and the plan out the venting requirements for the HVAC and 2 water heaters [chimney expert, with input from a plumber?]
– break open wall boxed in pipes and replace pipes with b-vent, adjust pipe pitch as necessary[HVAC expert or gen contractor?]
– worst case scenario: move HVAC & water heater 3-5′ to improve distance, replace all pipe, including what’s inside the chimney [could be HVAC, gen contractor, plumber]
My guess: $250 materials, $250 chimney inspection, 1 day of labor $400; moving HVAC and water heater $1000; re-line chimney $1000)
Worst case: $2900

b) The 2nd water heater is placed near the rear of the house and is venting out the side of the building. (Code says this is a no-no). I think this should be planned for holistically with the other activities to determine whether all 3 should vent from the same chimney or to potentially split them up between the 2 chimneys in the house.
The ask:
– move water heater ~10ft over so it’s close to a chimney and run the exhaust flue out a chimney. [plumber]
My guess: $800-1000
Worst case: $1000

3) assuming all of the work above, walls will be broken, so will need some finishing work.
The ask:
– fix all walls [gen contractor/finisher]
– create a utility closet [gen contractor/finisher]
My guess: $200 materials; 1-2 days labor ($400-800)
Worst case: $1000

So my worst worst worst will cost $6100. Any thought on whether I’m low/on-target/high? Are my day rates for labor way off?

For what it’s worth, based on a phone convo, an HVAC guy said that redoing the pipes from the parlor level to roof alone would easily cost $3000-4500 – plus I’d still need to hire a finisher.

Thanks for any help.

aron.grossman

in General Discussion 8 years and 6 months ago

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dorkofwindsor | 8 years and 6 months ago

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you need a master plumber to come look and give a quote, i wouldnt trust a contractor when their quote could be off by $10k or more. its the details that matter. the venting out the wall is completeley moronic and reeks of handyman special – only a master plumber could look and say total tear out or $ estimate to fix. i wouldnt be hasty just call the right guys. Try Henry Myers, small outfit sometimes busy but i like them.

Guest User | 8 years and 6 months ago

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We had a similar problem when we closed on our house. I would strongly recommend to work this into your contract or in (what we did) a survival agreement, that the seller has to fix it and will have to pay for it. Our issues with the HVAC was “supposedly” something really small and minor, but in reality we ended up having a 3 week construction site in our house into which we had already moved it. I would really recommend that your lawyer helps you with this. We had a laundry list of little things that had to be fixed and everything was done by the seller and their contractors.

Guest User | 8 years and 6 months ago

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We had a similar problem when we closed on our house. I would strongly recommend to work this into your contract or in (what we did) a survival agreement, that the seller has to fix it and will have to pay for it. Our issues with the HVAC was “supposedly” something really small and minor, but in reality we ended up having a 3 week construction site in our house into which we had already moved it. I would really recommend that your lawyer helps you with this. We had a laundry list of little things that had to be fixed and everything was done by the seller and their contractors.

daveinbedstuy | 8 years and 6 months ago

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Great!!!! Good luck.

aron.grossman | 8 years and 6 months ago

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I ended up getting an amazing lifeline – a family friend’s contractor (who happened to be out of town) was kind enough to recommend another contractor partners with with frequently. I got a call late in the eve and they were able to come in next day.

They estimated around $9-12k ballpark worst case scenario to get things to code. While the seller may balk at the number, through my conversation with this team I feel a bit more informed now that I have more expert opinion in my corner.

I really appreciated the approach of this particular contractor – positioning themselves as a problem solver – setting themselves up for long term work.
I’ll likely use them post-closing regardless to do some diagnostics (punch a few holes to verify electrical, pipes, ducts, etc – basically complete hope inspection) and to build the utility closet once we lock down the positioning of the mechanicals in the basement.

robyim1 | 8 years and 6 months ago

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I had a tankless water heater installed and we vented up through the inactive chimney and up through the roof. This is plumbers work with an assist from the GC to fill any holes. I’m thinking only the plumber would know the code and how to prevent backdraft. I don’t know how much it would cost because it’s part of larger reno but installation of water heater should run 5-15k and that should include this type of work you would think.

robyim1 | 8 years and 6 months ago

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I had a tankless water heater installed and we vented up through the inactive chimney and up through the roof. This is plumbers work with an assist from the GC to fill any holes. I’m thinking only the plumber would know the code and how to prevent backdraft. I don’t know how much it would cost because it’s part of larger reno but installation of water heater should run 5-15k and that should include this type of work you would think.

aron.grossman | 8 years and 6 months ago

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@Augustiner – Yeah. Just what I thought. Any suggestions on how to get a quote to fix this?

I need to come up with an estimate (large or small) to fix this and provide back to the seller for credit – perhaps including a scenario to rip it all out and do it again.

If someone can tell me this is $50k worth of work, that’s absolutely fine, I have no problem going back to the seller saying it’ll cost $XXXXX, now give me my credit at closing and I’ll take care of it.

The key question is who is ideally suited to come up with the # since no individual area of expertise seems to own this.

(for what it’s worth, the house is hot, the water gets hot – the HVAC/furnaces and water heaters function, but we know for a fact that they’re not installed right and can cause some safety issues)

Augustiner | 8 years and 6 months ago

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I think your ‘worst case scenario’ is really the best case scenario. Because
1. Nobody shows up to fix anything substantial for $1000. Nobody will even touch a HVAC system for that kind of money
2. you don’t know any reliable contractors, so you’ll be taken for a ride
3. contractors don’t like to fix other contractors mess
4. if the original installer refuses to fix it it’s most likely a very bad job that needs a lot of fixing
4. you don’t know the unknowns. Maybe your chimney flu is structurally unsound. Maybe the Hvac condenser is too small
5. everything is always more expensive

Do if you want to calculate realistically multiply your numbers times 10 and you’ll be closer to the final number.

aron.grossman | 8 years and 6 months ago

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Correction for 2A: the power vent water heater in the basement near the HVAC is currently venting via PVC into the chimney (~30ft to roof). Need to find out if this is to spec or needs remediation. (not sure what choices there are, to be honest!)