Navigating the End of a Renovation

I’m happy to report I’m coming to the end of our year-long partial gut renovation. We’ve learned a lot and confirmed they are more expensive, longer lasting and more painful than you anticipate, as we were warned. Remaining a renter never looked so attractive, but alas, my time machine is broken.

While I can’t say I’m happy with the end product, the problems are ones that I’ll be able to fix myself or with a more focused contractor later for a fraction of the overall cost of the project. Disappointing for sure, but maintaining perspective I know this could’ve ended much worse. I’ll have projects for a while, but that’s owning an old house I understand.

But, the relationship has deteriorated rapidly, and I’m thoughtful of getting this thing to close safely and maintaining whichever relationships I need to maintain moving forward. I’d be fine to never see the contractor again – I needed them to coordinate my first big project like this, but ultimately I managed their subs’ work directly and the contractor only added confusion and disorganization. They are acti ng less reliable, and are going back on their word to finance the final payments, but they remain nominally committed to getting it done right so I am hopeful that they won’t do anything destructive or crazy. But trust has deteriorated so instead of any longer recommending them (with reservations) I’m basically just trying to bring this thing to close safely and go our separate ways.

As much as I’d love to cut ties completely, I assume it is wise to try to maintain a relationship with at least the plumber, electrician and HVAC. They are the ones that know the inner workings of my mechanicals, and I’m sure to need their help for maintenance. And I actually liked them and appreciated their work.

My goal is get the contractor out of the way and focus on working with the subs I want to help me move into the house and address any future issues efficiently. Will I be able to thread that needle? Does it matter if I have the ability to get any of them to come back? I liked the subs, and would be happy to recommend them and work with them again, but have had growing reservations about the contractor and now based on their behavior at the end think it’s best to gain a distance from them.

Thoughts appreciated!

amt230

in General Discussion 2 years and 1 month ago

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robertbullock | 2 years and 1 month ago

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In addition to the above, if it’s not too late, I’d recommend that you hold off on final payment until they do all, or most of, the work that remains, and submit a checklist of remaining work in writing. If the contractor refuses, don’t bother disputing via the administrative courts–if they lose there, they’ll probably just
sue you.

colonialrevival | 2 years and 1 month ago

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I ended up with a contractor who was either in over his head or preferred to work on another project (probably the latter) who left us in a similar situation. Had no problem cashing our checks, but couldn’t bother keeping us posted as to what was going on, what his schedule was like, etc. That said, his subs did great work, and I made sure to either photograph every truck or get the contact info for the foreman when I saw them next. It was pretty easy to do so without the contractor knowing, since he was never around. I have shied away from GCs these days and instead contract everything out myself—easier, cheaper, and I’m the ultimate stakeholder, as opposed to some dude who shows up every 2 weeks on his way to the bank.

cate | 2 years and 1 month ago

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OP, I mean inspections must be done, and permits signed off on by the building department. The permit status can be viewed on the DOB website. It should literally say “signed off” on the top of the document. If there is some issue, and the DOB won’t sign off on a permit, the sub has to return to fix whatever the issues are until the DOB signs off. If you have an expediter or architect, they will help. Permits can be electrical, plumbing, and Alt-1 or Alt-2. Good luck!

amt230 | 2 years and 1 month ago

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msw2112 – yes, I did have other trusted people involved in the project, which was immensely helpful. At the same time, it’s a balancing act since I get frustrated with the game of telephone between client and person holding the tool. I spent a good amount of time cutting through that and going to the job site myself to direct details (that is also in line with my personality). Also, as this forum can sometimes show, if you ask a dozen people you may get a dozen opinions on some topics, so it is helpful to focus your reliance on certain trusted resources (and trust your gut, its your house!) otherwise get lost in decision paralysis (again, perhaps in line with my personality). Some of my frustrations with the process I believe may have been unavoidable (I am yet to find the person who loved their renovation and found it rewarding) and there are so many personal variables for each project – I wouldn’t say I regret working with this contractor or any other decisions made in the process as much as I regret not realize how much being a renter was the best fit for me.

cat e – thank you, and this is getting to my immediate confusion. I’m going to ask a basic question, what do “sign offs” actually look like? Some subs have suggested they expect to return, e.g., to install my washer/dryer that’s moving from my current home when we move. Others, like HVAC, I haven’t seen in months and don’t expect I’ll see again (unless issues). The end is both a fluid and finite process, it seems. Note, I only have one inspection (electrical) open. I assume sign offs aren’t complete until that is, so that’s when I’ll be on the hook for the final payment.

cate | 2 years and 1 month ago

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OP, you will need to have the existing subs sign off on all the work. After that, you need never work with them again.

Lurker | 2 years and 1 month ago

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just make sure you’ve passed all your inspections before you cut line with your existing trades and note that certain inspections (gas in particular that I know of ) are time-sensitive so move heaven and earth to get signed off asap.

cdix999 | 2 years and 1 month ago

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amt230 — very sad to hear about your renovation. As another first-time homeowner about to start selecting a contractor for a large renovation project, stories like yours are scary and depressing. Would be very interested in connecting and learning more about your experience.

For other folks planning on renovating who find this thread, one of the best decisions we’ve made so far was hiring Steve (HomeInspector) to go over some things with us prior to selecting a contractor.

Steve’s advice was great. He gave us a rundown on what to look for when comparing bidding contractors, flagged parts of the project where we might run into issues, and identified some smaller projects that we’re better off doing on our own. Steve also found a handful of critical maintenance issues that needed to be addressed but that were missed by other professionals, including by our pre-purchase inspector. If (when?) things start to go sideways during our renovation, we will not hesitate to call Steve back.

And in general, the number of potential issues flagged by Steve, our architect, and our d esigner collectively is massive. So much would have gone wrong if we had only worked with a contractor–we started by talking to contractors and a some were ready to get started immediately after we did a walkthrough and explained what we wanted. The more we talk to folks who did large renovation projects, the more we’ve seen a positive correlation between the amount of non-contractor professional engagement and how well the project goes. These professionals aren’t cheap, but given how quickly costs add up based on unexpected issues and delays once construction starts, it seems like they are a money saver in the long run–we’ll share more in this forum once we’re a ways into construction.

amt230, very curious if you had an architect or other folks working with you besides your contractor and their subs and how much that helped or not.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 1 month ago

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a lot of this comes down to contractors bidding too low and homeowners taking that bid. i recently met with someone planning a renovation and told them “do not negotiate with contractors” (in other words, if that is what they are comfortable doing the job at, leave it there) and “do not ever accept the lowest bid”. both of these are a recipe for disaster.

Only op knows the circumstances of this but when i hear this, i suspect money is at the bottom of it. we (contractors) make mistakes and if money is the mistake it is impossible to find the money (this assumes the contractor does not have other issues and took the money for something). Usually when people choose the lowest bid, there are “cost overruns” and the contractor will make it sound like a mistake. it might not have been a mistake. The contractor might have needed the job and bid too low and they will put their hand out.

also, the cost of some materials doubled in the past year. that caught me off guard in my contracting business and it made doing jobs harder.

amt230 | 2 years and 1 month ago

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Also, on naming names, I will obviously respect the policy, but I also thought hard about this and don’t feel a public post is the appropriate/proportionate response to my experience. I have no interest in hurting anyone’s business gratuitously, continue to believe that some of the subs are great (and respect all of them, even if I don’t like or trust them), and am thoughtful that my experience is mine alone. If this were a private chat or we were meeting in person, I’d gladly share everything, but the reality is that the internet mutates dynamics (in all of aspects of our lives) and I wouldn’t feel comfortable creating a decontextualized search result of my personal experience. But, if you’re exploring a renovation and want to chat offline, I’d love to share more details about my experience so others can learn from it. Otherwise, I’ll continue to appreciate everyone’s input here immensely, and am happy to contribute to the knowledge base on an anonymous basis as is suggested.

amt230 | 2 years and 1 month ago

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Thanks all! I do have about 20% of the overall cost of the project left to pay (the 10% final payment ballooned by how much we went over budget). What freaked me out is that they started presenting me with a “punch list” that they said needed to have remaining items on it, but also told me the work isn’t done when I put things on that list, and simultaneously revoked the financing they had agreed upon and asked me for an immediate “progress payment” that was effectively the entire remaining balance. I’m sure they’re freaked as this has deteriorated and the realize I still have almost 6-digits to pay, but this seemed like a bad-faith way to get their money and create a paper trail that this thing was done. Suffice to say, trust is lost. E is right, the ways in which this can go wrong cannot be anticipated!

But, I am reasonably confident that I can live with taking it as-is, and have secured someone who does inspections to join me to walk through (thank you HomeInspector, had I not already gotten so far down that path, I would have appreciated talking to you). I am cautiously optimistic that they won’t do something reckless, but -again- E is right, the ways in which this can go wrong cannot be anticipated!

Cate notes having contact information for some of the subs I was thinking I would need. JPDA suggests I don’t need to worry about it. Do I really need them? As I’ve thought more about it, I’ve learned so much from this forum (THANK YOU!) about this process and reliable resources, I’m excited to build my own team to help me maintain and continue working on my home. Am I being stupid to think I can never have to interact with this team again? For the avoidance of doubt, I will gladly pay to get trustworthy help rather then go through yet another round of negotiating the resolution of whatever little issues may come up with them under any sort of “warranty”. If something really bad happens, I’ll basically just seek legal recourse, but please keep your fingers crossed that won’t happen!!!

I feel like I’m having Stockholm syndrome because you end up so reliant on your contract owning the reigns in this process, and want to rationally level-set on what my future looks like maintaining this house moving forward, keeping in mind this is my first home and I have never had to call tradespeople before!

JPDA | 2 years and 1 month ago

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OP, is your GC a licensed Home Improvement Contractor in NYC? If so then you will have some additional protections if all goes south. Don’t worry about staying friendly with the subs – you need them to finish their scope and get their signoffs as your top priority. Hopefully you have set aside some retainage from the payments, as Cate mentioned above. The end of a project is always tricky for homeowners since they have very little leverage at that point.

laloland | 2 years and 1 month ago

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Hi amt230, while I can’t give you any advice on your situation, I wish you all the best. I just wanted to add that we ran several issues during our renovation. It really catches you off guard, huh? You think you have a fail-proof plan until it’s curtailed through no fault of your own. Please keep us updated with any developments. Good luck.

cate | 2 years and 1 month ago

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OP, congratulations on nearing the (almost) finish line. Hopefully you have withheld some payments. Everything should be closed out and pass inspection, and any permits should be signed off on. (Do you have/need an expediter?) You can present the contractor with a punch list, and they will reserve a day or three for finishing those items. Then you will pay the contractor. Meanwhile, hopefully you have all the names, addresses, and contact information for the skilled tradespeople you worked with such as the plumber, electrician, etc., in case you need to call on them in the future. Good luck!

cate | 2 years and 1 month ago

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moorebenjamin, it’s preferable if the OP keeps this anonymous. Potentially libelous comments and threads will be deleted, per our commenting policy.

Guest User | 2 years and 1 month ago

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please call out the contractor so we can avoid..

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 1 month ago

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i am a contractor and former building supervisor/manager (read project supervisor/manager). i am now a licensed home inspector and for the past year have been continuing my already substantial education as fast as i can read.

i was not aware i would be doing a certain kind of inspection until people began calling me and asking me to do post purchase inspections (as opposed to buyer’s inspections) where i go into houses with the customer following me and I look at what others have missed (a lot), what is not right, what someone can live with, and what has to be done sooner rather than later. Coming from a commercial environment, liability and safety are paramount for me. I write up what i find. where i think someone can do it themselves or with unlicensed people, i tell them so. where they need licensed trades i tell them so and why.

As someone who has worked in management, has done a lot of the work, is a contractor, and homeowner, i can offer some perspective that few have and in truth, it gives me the ability to either flush the bs out with contractors or tell a customer that perhaps it is better to accept a little less here and push for more in some other area where it might be more important (to them).

Obviously you will need people for sign offs. if you are attempting to put a punch list together (i have done this as a manager on projects and as a contractor doing the work) or need ideas on what is acceptable (listen, these contractors bs homeowners all the time and they would never do that to me; it does not happen; i can tell you when what they are saying is bs), i might be able to help you. even if you are not sure you want to pay someone like me to come in, you are welcome to call and talk to me, see if you agree with my thinking on some things and see if i could be of help. See my experience and the testimonials on my webpage.

I do not know everything and when i do not have an answer, i look people in the eye and tell them “i do not know”. i have the resources to find most answers fast.

I have done several inspections for people on this forum simply for writing what i did above and they are all happy customers.

Steve
Brownstonehomeinspection.com