Multiple Dwellings: 2 vs. 3 (How to tell?)

Let’s say you had a two-family house: no CO or icard, but DoF says it’ s a 2 and taxes it as such. It’s three stories, both stories below (floors Basement and One, let’s call them) are ‘apartment 1’ and the floor Two ( is ‘apt 2’. Apt 1 has one gas+electric meter for those two floors, Apt 2 has its own gas+electric meter. Apt 1 has only one kitchen with stove, on Floor One. The Basement floor just has a mud room with a fridge and sink in it, no stove.

On the other hand, the stairs that connect the Basement to floor One have doors that can potentially be locked. If you go up the stairs from Basement, you reach a door, you open the door and there two doors facing you: one for the bedroom (which is lockable w/ key) and one for the common hallway which you can follow to leave or go upstairs to Apt 2..

Also there is an outside entrance for Basement, front and back for the back yard. Finally, previous owner used it as a three family.

Is there a way to ke ep the doors between Basement and floor One for privacy, without running afoul of the law?

Is there someone in the DoB to ask? A place in the Code to read? Or is that a question for an architect? A lawyer?

soundhoner

in General Discussion 8 years and 10 months ago

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eileengray | 8 years and 10 months ago

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Sorry there are many dwellings that started ç life as two families. I was referring to housing stock built ( mostly before 1900) that were one family dwellings at the onset.

chemosphere | 8 years and 10 months ago

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” They all started life as one family dwellings. Along the way they became two, three or four family homes (legally or not). ” This isn’t true. After 1890 or so many were built as 2 family from the start (like mine, in Flatbush.) See, for instance, the Prospect Lefferts Gardens Landmark report, especially Lefferts Ave. http://www.nyc.gov/html/lpc/downloads/pdf/reports/PROSPECT_LEFFERTS_GARDENS_HISTORIC_DISTRICT.pdf

eileengray | 8 years and 10 months ago

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Welcome to the world of Brooklyn row houses. They all started life as one family dwellings. Along the way they became two, three or four family homes (legally or not). The DOB is not helpful since they don’t have an “existing” building code. So as a homeowner or prospective buyer, you are left trying to figure out the legal use on your own.
Here are a few tips:
1. The DOB website will show whether or not the building has a current C of O. If so that’s the definitive use. If not, the legal use requires more investigation. NYC HPD will reveal whether the building is a legal three (or more – i.e. multiple dwelling). If the property is being promoted as a three plus family and is not on the HPD or DOB website, it is an illegal
conversion; and mostly likely can only be a one or two family.
2. I f it is a legal 3 or more and you are seeking to convert it to a one or two family, you will need to change the C of O. If it has three floors plus basement, you need to install a sprinkler system. Does it make sense when you are reducing the potential for fire? No but you need to ask the DOB and NYC DOB about that.
3. Buildings converted from one family to three or more must have been done before 1938 unless it was done as a DOB filed job with a new C of O. Otherwise it is a one or two family. Otherwise they need to be filed as a multiple dwelling at HPD.
4. It’s my opinion that a two family without a C of O can be renovated as a 2 or 1 family with a change in the C of O since it does not represent a change of use.
5. The taxation listing may be helpful but is not necessarily reflective of the legal use.
5. Consult an architect if in doubt.

Solomonsmines33 | 8 years and 10 months ago

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Do you already own the house? Generally for purchase/financing purposes if it is taxed as a two (and has no C of O) and has two kitchens it is a two. What needs to match generally is the use and the # of kitchens. Otherwise who is going to care?

soundhoner | 8 years and 10 months ago

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Thanks, resident2. That is very useful and I will do exactly that – because it’s going to help prepare me for some work I plan to do.

But it begs the question I was trying to ask (maybe I didn’t phrase it correctly). See, I’m pretty sure my house is a ‘legal use’ of a 2 -family for all intents and purposes. And I have no intention of using it as a 3. HOWEVER, my question is really around what criteria would they use to argue that my use of it is a 3? Is that a question for a lawyer? It’s definitely not a question for an inspector.

For example, say I have a tenant in apt 2 (top floor) and another in apt 1, the upper part of the duplex. And I leave the bottom empty for myself for occasional use, for storage, or something like that (no tenant). Does the door at the top of the stairs make the duplex look like two separate apartments and not a duplex, even though there is only one kitchen for the whole duplex?

I don’t yet know what my plans are here, as I’m still figuring out my strategy , but as a non-professional-investor, I have no idea how to even get the answer to that question. I don’t think even my lawyer can help with that.

I hope the context of my question makes more sense to someone out there.

someonecalleddob | 8 years and 10 months ago

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Thank you for this information. I am in a similar situation. My place does not have a C of O. It’s being used as a 2 family (owners duplex with top floor rental). There are only 2 kitchens but the DOB, DOF, etc. have it listed as a 3 family. I am also paying significantly higher taxes than my neighbors. If I get an expediter involved would the DOB need to come out and inspect the property? Also, how much would an expediter charge?

resident2 | 8 years and 10 months ago

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Every house has a legal use, no matter if there is a C of O or not. The legal difference between a 2 & a 3 is huge as it triggers a whole set of additional building standards for a 3. For 3 families you will see an enclosed boiler room enclosure in the cellar? A sprinkler system or a fire escape? These are the two quick and easy things to notice if it maybe a legal 3 family, if it does not have those then do not even waste your time trying to justify it as such. With these it does not make it a 3 …..
For houses with no C of O you will need to get a letter of no objection from the buildings department to prove what it is. In Brooklyn go to the receptionist on the 8th floor at 210 Joralemon St and ask for the list of requirements for a letter of no objection. You will be sent on a tour of various City records locations to get various copies of records. With this in hand ask a buildings department expediter what it will pass as.
If it is a legal 3 ; there is no pro blem with using it as a 2. But there is a major problem with using a 2 family as a 3… do not do it. And do not even waste your time contemplating making a 2 into a 3.