Moving a sink

The kitchen in our new place has a very strange layout with nearly all of the windows covered by appliances, because, you know, God forbid light or fresh air. To be fair the windows are very long and tall.
The opposite wall is completely bare windows and is situated in a way that would make it very easy to tear apart and plumb for a sink and gas line. It is a single family so there is no coop board, etc. to deal with. I know it is pricey and requires permitting and possibly an architect to move these lines but am curious whether any one has moved a sink or stove and how much it cost them?

dmdesmond

in General Discussion 9 years and 7 months ago

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cate | 9 years and 7 months ago

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Moving the stove is relatively easy and worth doing. I agree with what the architect said above, that the cost of moving the plumbing is relatively minor if you’re renovating the kitchen but best to do it without moving a vent line/plumbing stack. Also, I should have mentioned before, just so you know, making the whole wall windows probably requires an architect or an engineer and filing an Alt-1 because it must be structurally sound and you might need to add additional support to do it.

dmdesmond | 9 years and 7 months ago

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Thanks for the insight! I really appreciate the feedback. I think I will have to get a clearer outline of the plumbing before I commit. The layout of the kitchen is so poor that I’m not sure I can justify the cost of updating without changing the current layout

CMU- the reason I want to move it out of the window is because the sink and back splash block a 1/3 of 2 windows, which are long and the stove and cabinets completely cover a second. Cate – the sink at original location might be the right idea. Adding some additional windows is something to think about. If I can move the stove, than I get another window back as well. Thank you so much for chipping in your thoughts. It’s really a big help

cate | 9 years and 7 months ago

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Just a guess, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the sink in the butler’s pantry never connected to a vent line. But who knows. I’d consider moving the kitchen sink back to its original location on the party wall between the fireplace and window. Another option to consider if you have the budget: Leave some or all of the appliances on the rear wall, but make the whole wall above them all windows (and/or put a door in there too).

anotherpsarchitect | 9 years and 7 months ago

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The percentage of cost will vary from project to project. Plumbing FIXTURES are astonishingly expensive. If you are reusing cabinets or buying off-the-shelf, vs. custom, plumbing can be the bigger cost. Cabinets, appliances, flooring, lighting, etc. can vary widely. But the cost of moving the services to a sink or a gas line? Don’t compromise your project around that. I am an architect (NOT looking for a project) and a homeowner who has undertaken major renovation work, but I realize that my perspective may be skewed.

cmu | 9 years and 7 months ago

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No, plumbing will be a significant part of the cost.

Since it’s a single family, I’d move the gas line under permit, and just move the sink, but it will still cost. Internal vents can be used nowadays, so venting may not be that big a deal. Iae, you’d never move the vent line, you just have to link to it. Soffits are your friend to hide that vent line across the walls. If you have free access under the floor, it will cost less.
Also, curious: most people *want* the sink under a window, why move it to a blank wall?

I’m building a kitchen and plumbing is 25-30% of the total cost.

anotherpsarchitect | 9 years and 7 months ago

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It will probably not be a huge part of the overall cost if you are doing a complete kitchen renovation. I think it is very much worth it, since it is not the kind of thing you can easily go back to do later.

dmdesmond | 9 years and 7 months ago

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thanks Cate! This is really good advice and a lot of it is good news, even better. Especially the permit details. Thank you so much.

The sink is on the ground floor. I am not sure where we would move it yet, but it’s current location is not ideal and unrelated to the original location for the sink in that kitchen. Original blueprints for the house, built in 1904, do show a sink and plumbing next to a chimney in the kitchen like you mentioned. There as was also a second sink on the other side of the kitchen, in the pantry.

In an apartment building, every wet area is directly on top of each other making for a pretty easy layman’s guess as to where plumbing is and where you can move things. In this house, bathrooms and sinks are scattered all over and it isn’t as easy to surmise where piping is coming and going.

cate | 9 years and 7 months ago

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Cost will vary depending on your particular situation and what is involved. Is it on the ground floor, so you can just come up through the basement with the new lines? The gas line is relatively easy, but the sink needs to be near something called a vent line — basically a big pipe that goes straight up from the cellar to the roof. That is not easy or desirable to move — about $12,000 or more in a three-story house with a cellar. How old is your house? There may be an existing vent line near where you want to move the sink. (In Brooklyn 19th century row houses, they run along the chimney if this is an original garden floor kitchen.) Also keep in mind it’s not a good idea to put gas or water lines on an outside wall because there is danger they will freeze in the winter. You do not need an architect to move a gas line, just a licensed plumber, who will file a permit for the specific line (not an Alt-1 or Alt-2). Technically, you do need an engineer or an architect to file an Alt-2 to move a plumbed water fixture such as a sink. But you may be able to take advantage of g randfathered conditions, and simply put the sink back where it used to be originally. My advice is to at least speak to an architect or kitchen designer (with experience in your area and type of house) before you begin. As for cost to only move a gas line or a water supply/waste line, if you’re not moving it far, figure maybe $1,600 per line to start for a licensed plumber — but costs could be much more depending on what is involved.