Mini garden in front of brownstone - need permit?
Hi, our current brownstone has concrete in the front – I’d like to remove some of it to plant a garden. Does the concrete removal require a permit?
I found this: https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/rules/1_RCNY_101-14.pdf however the rules of “nursery” don’t mention concrete removal!
(Ideally we’d like to do the work ourselves, so any advice on a project like this, welcomed, too. )
cobblehillhome
in General Discussion 4 years and 3 months ago
31
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31 replies
hkapstein | 4 years and 3 months ago
I agree the solution is almost certainly to “just do it” but you might want to know what you’re getting into before you start. You can absolutely change your landscaping, but technically you probably can’t change your hardscaping without a permit. Jackhamering it out could get some attention. I think commonly it’s done when there’s another permit open anyway so if someone sees that jackhammer, they will see you have a permit.
What you have to think about is that once DOB gets involved, they can make up all kinds of requirements. They used to say in brooklyn that everything is legal until someone complains. We used to have conversations like this about 2 story extensions in the donut. If you built it, no one would call DOB, or even knew or cared about permits. Now things have changed. I doubt dob would like you jackhammering or sledgehammering cement 2 feet from where people walk. If you DIY it better, make sure debris doesn’t hit people.
Highly likely you get away with this, but just make sure you know what you’re gonna do if you get a visit from dob.
Guest User | 4 years and 3 months ago
I am with John, don’t go down rabbit holes. I don’t know if breaking up concrete requires a permit so make sure. While everyone wants to help, not everything posted is accurate. Last thing you want is someone calling DOB as they were irritated by the noise or have nothing better to do. Due diligence is safe rather than being sorry.
JohnHancock | 4 years and 3 months ago
Just do it, it’s your front garden. Enjoy life
resident2 | 4 years and 3 months ago
If you are not in Landmark district, you can re-landscape your front yard in what ever way you like so long as your structures, plantings, drainage does not encroach on you neighbors or the sidewalk.
Do check your survey; hopefully you got a full survey when you bought your house? This will show where your property line is in the front of your house; although that said, it is highly unlikely that the City would rush out and give you a violation for anything that looks like it is in your front yard, even if you do not actually own your front yard, as per the survey. Just as you as an owner are expected to maintain the City owned sidewalk, you are expected to maintain the City owned front yard to your house.
I once lived on a block where the City owned all of the front halves of the front yards: I put in a new wrought iron fence, planted a tree and other shrubs, even excavated & made a pathway to my basement…. no problems, even sold the property to a NYC Planning department person… no issues.
hkapstein | 4 years and 3 months ago
Well you don’t to see it, the point would be to identify that it wasn’t there. It may be harder to get the microfilm than it used to be, but last time I was at DOB it was still there, unlike the folders that had to be pulled from storage. Now it’s a good idea to pull all this stuff anyway, make blowbacks of your microfilm, and high rest photos or scans of anything in your folder, so you’ll know what’s in there, so why not now?
It’s unlikely the records will show this area, but it’s possible they do. If there was a work filed, and the architect ordered a slab, it could be described. Chances are it is not unless it was important, plans before the 90s rarely have much detail.
Now even if it is filed, you can most likely get away with re hardscaping the areaway without a permit. But you’d have work that didn’t match DOB plans in an area that you can’t refuse inspection. Probably it’s okay, but you never know. No one 20 years ago expected the type of scrutiny we face now.
Guest User | 4 years and 3 months ago
JP I realized you said you aren’t Landmarks. Please disregard Chapter 8
Guest User | 4 years and 3 months ago
Urbandad, have you seen concrete on a microfilm? I haven’t so would love to know. Microfilm could lead to OP wasting weeks trying to get that info. It may be faster to call a sidewalk, masonry company, landscaping company or architect and they will tell you the rules. Even if you are doing this yourself, make a few calls and ask.
https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/lpc/downloads/pdf/LPCPermitGuidebook_Chapter8_Yards.pdf
hkapstein | 4 years and 3 months ago
Request the folder, microfilm, and any digital plans from DOB.
cobblehillhome | 4 years and 3 months ago
How would I check to see if it’s in any records at the DOB?
hkapstein | 4 years and 3 months ago
Is the concrete shown on any records at DOB? If not, I think you’d be better off not filing for a permit, particularly if you can do the work yourself. For one thing, the areaway is partly on city property, so that could result it some headaches if things went sideways.
cobblehillhome | 4 years and 3 months ago
Forgot to add — we are NOT in a landmark district or house