Just how soft is the Brooklyn brownstone market?

We received a postcard from a RE company boasting about having sold a Montgomery Place house for a record $12.6 million. After a paragraph of self-congratulation, the broker added, “All this while many quality properties have lingered on the market for months and even years.” I’m very puzzled by the current market. Very little inventory, yet very slow sales. What do you feel is inhibiting sales? An over-heated stock market? Political malaise? Sellers deciding not to move after all? Overly-aggressive pricing? Capital gains penalties? Brooklyn losing its allure?

NeoGrec

in General Discussion 7 years and 9 months ago

9

Please log in, in order to post replies!

9 replies

Newest Oldest

NeoGrec | 7 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4901 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4889 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(4) "1741"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(7) "NeoGrec"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BOvBZSSoDDccMCffw1igzkiT0t5s1D."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(7) "neogrec"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(21) "rparr@randomhouse.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(36) "http:///forums/users/grandarmyredux/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 13:46:16"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(7) "NeoGrec"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(1741)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Yes, at a time when it’s harder than ever to find a good GC and certainly no cheaper than it was 5-10 years ago, it’s likely true that many buyers in the $1.5m – $2.5m range are opting for new build. Of course, how those apartments will hold up over time in anyone’s guess but they are certainly all “move In” ready.

housepoor | 7 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4900 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4899 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "71781"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(9) "housepoor"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(63) "$wp$2y$10$/FcjiKlefNxZbTPgi.sDW.3mhyu12E62ijN8M/o9As5nBR2ZXA2Xq"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(9) "housepoor"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(25) "jonathanscooper@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(24) "/forums/users/housepoor/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:30:00"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(9) "housepoor"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(71781)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

mat315’s point from the Corcoran report is well taken. You always need to get behind the statistics, dividing out new developments vs older resales, sorting by location and, important to the brownstone market, building width and condition. Trying to sell a 16 footer for the same per sq ft price as a 20 and/or pricing a multi-family as if it is a move-in ready single family is a fool’s errand — but it looks like people are trying. Those are the properties that sit and sit.

angelique.m.west | 7 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4889 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4896 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "195789"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(16) "angelique.m.west"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BKyCNqhmpN//us7xYEZbcaPfVpZcKF0"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(25) "angelique-m-westgmail-com"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(26) "angelique.m.west@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:37:10"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(15) "Angelique Marie"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(195789)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(3) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

One big factor affecting the re-sale market in Brooklyn is new developments.

Here’s an excerpt from Corcoran’s second-quarter Brooklyn report:

“New development closings led the
increase in market wide sales as resale
condo sales were level year-over-year
and resale co-op sales actually fell 6%
versus the same period. The increase
in new development introductions
throughout the borough in the last few
years, several of which were ready for
occupancy in recent months, enticed
some Brooklyn buyers to buy in new
developments. ”

Translation: Many people who have the money would rather buy in a newly developed condo (which likely will have the latest state-of-the-art finishes and amenities) versus a resale which may need some updating or even a house.

EJR | 7 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4901 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4902 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "79362"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(3) "EJR"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$B.h6vu7ImM77fV6j0TvRwlieo3mAr4/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(3) "ejr"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(19) "ejrothman@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(46) "http://bstoner.wpengine.com/forums/users/ejr2/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:30:58"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(3) "EJR"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(79362)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

> @NeoGrec
> EJR, So little inventory — yet it’s still not moving. Why?
Because regardless of the overall state of the “average” market, there are still only a handful of buyers interested in townhouses in Brookylyn that cost 8 figures. You are literally trying to sell your house to one of, say 5 people, at any given time, as opposed to the dozens or hundreds of interested buyers for a townhouse below, say, $3 million.

slopefarm | 7 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4900 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4903 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(3) "655"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(9) "slopefarm"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BK7dzbqXJe9TV6iU0glcNZiXdOt9CR1"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(9) "slopefarm"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(18) "jrubin@law.nyc.gov"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(24) "/forums/users/slopefarm/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:11:42"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(9) "slopefarm"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(655)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Is there data that suggests it is not moving, or just broker puffery vs its competitors.

NeoGrec | 7 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4889 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4904 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(4) "1741"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(7) "NeoGrec"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BOvBZSSoDDccMCffw1igzkiT0t5s1D."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(7) "neogrec"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(21) "rparr@randomhouse.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(36) "http:///forums/users/grandarmyredux/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 13:46:16"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(7) "NeoGrec"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(1741)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Bob, I’m thinking more of the last 18 months than just this month.
EJR, So little inventory — yet it’s still not moving. Why?

EJR | 7 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4901 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5066 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "79362"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(3) "EJR"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$B.h6vu7ImM77fV6j0TvRwlieo3mAr4/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(3) "ejr"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(19) "ejrothman@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(46) "http://bstoner.wpengine.com/forums/users/ejr2/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:30:58"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(3) "EJR"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(79362)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

The highest end of the market is usually harder to sell than the “lower” ends. What are the states on sub $3 million townhouse? probably better.

BobMarvin | 7 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4904 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4900 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(3) "802"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(9) "BobMarvin"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(63) "$wp$2y$10$vXcETAGfbklfbxLqBuZOwe9SvZukjLn11bfJ4K5tk7sYEGuWi6OGW"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(9) "bobmarvin"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(17) "marvbej@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(31) "http:///forums/users/bobmarvin/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2006-09-08 23:16:42"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(10) "Bob Marvin"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(802)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(3) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["SPF Manage Forums"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(5) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["SPF Manage Forums"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

It IS August

mozeeatupu | 7 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4889 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5067 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "176749"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(10) "mozeeatupu"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BHO3bQekVGtCrXmPMzpkzkalt5eAQl/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(10) "mozeeatupu"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(17) "grandzu@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(25) "/forums/users/mozeeatupu/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:25:47"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(10) "mozeeatupu"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(176749)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Sales are fine, rental market has softened a bit due to a lot of inventory just built and in the pipeline