Interesting Heat Pump Story on PBS NewsHour tonight

https://youtu.be/RdzjrVwWz4o

JohnHancock

in General Discussion 2 years and 6 months ago

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dindy | 2 years and 5 months ago

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DOes anyone have any new information about geothermal being done in Brooklyn ?
We have reached out to Dandelion, but they say they don’t come to Brooklyn. There is room to drill on my property and i would like to take advantage of this worthwhile option.
Any experience or advice would be helpful.
( not sure if this is where I should be puttting this ?)

gururoofing | 2 years and 5 months ago

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Cate, are you saying that the ground source pump can be set up to work with the indoor heads of the mini splits instead of the outdoor compressor?

cate | 2 years and 5 months ago

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Randolph, that is very informative about minisplits in your upstate place, thank you for posting. Since you did install minisplits, you are a prime candidate to do geothermal. It’s a heat pump and heat exchanger — you drill down into the ground like for a well, and the system uses hot water below the surface to run your minisplit heating and cooling. So apart from the electricity needed for the geothermal heat pump, you don’t use electricity for the actual heating and cooling. The cost of digging down is quite high, but with various offsets and rebates and this and that, it might be fairly affordable. If you google geothermal in New York you may see something pop up from some Google spinoff that’s trying to get this going. In addition, you could hook up solar to power the geothermal heat pump and lights and such, and you wouldn’t pay any utilities at all. It’s difficult to do geothermal in the city, although someone is trying to invent one that can be installed underground in a cellar.

chemosphere | 2 years and 5 months ago

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quite a bit here on the “do you need to keep your boiler as backup” question. https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/02/07/maine-gas-industry-heat-pumps/

randolph | 2 years and 6 months ago

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> @Master Plvmber
> Well you spend a ridiculous amount of time on this forum and you’ve got a second home, so I guess I took a shot that you’ve got some extra dough.
rude and presumptuous.

carolina-moscoso | 2 years and 6 months ago

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BayRidge, you are spot on. Hydronic + steam heat is far superior to forced air, which is why heat pump boilers sound so promising for homes with existing piping. In my first home we replaced a failing hydronic system with mini-splits because the cost to replace the gas boiler and open up walls to repair failed pipe welds just didn’t make sense. We also needed AC for the summer. Our upstate house has nothing but forced air so the switch to mini-splits was less jarring this time around. Forced air not common in the city, but up north many houses rely on it instead of radiators and it’s cost prohibitive to break open plaster walls to run hydronic piping.

carlinepierre27 | 2 years and 6 months ago

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In response to a couple of questions:
We installed Mitsubishi mini-splits as a reasonably affordable way to get air conditioning throughout our semi-detached, 1920’s era home. The units effectively provide A/C and we can cool the parts of the house we are in without cooling the whole house. The system was not designed or sold as a replacement to our steam radiators. It has the capability to heat the house but as I mentioned in my original post, I am not a fan. I don’t like the warm air blowing on me and it made the house feel drafty. In addition, forced air heat of any kind is very drying and really needs added humidification if you want to be comfortable.

If you are someone who is used to living with forced-air heating, split system heating is a good system. For those of us who prefer steam or hot water radiators, its hard to imagine that switching to mini-splits for heat (in an old house) is going to make you happy.

carolina-moscoso | 2 years and 6 months ago

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To each their own man.

Guest User | 2 years and 6 months ago

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Getting a little too weird for me

carolina-moscoso | 2 years and 6 months ago

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Rebates are just one component of all of this, Eman. They no longer exist because the program was so successful that all allocated funds were exhausted. Might they come back at some point? Sure. But will homeowners continue to invest in new heating technologies without the rebates — absolutely. This is a boon for the industry. Well the ones on the right side of all of this, that is. Oil and gas dependent specialists need to reinvent themselves or in 10 years they’ll just spend all their time competing for service contracts for the remaining fossil fuel systems and doing absolutely no new installs. While the “ban gas stove” hysteria of last week certainly isn’t helpful to the greater cause, I actually think that all these gentle nudges through rebates and other incentives was the right lead up to these next and inevitable steps.

Guest User | 2 years and 6 months ago

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Also, as I posted earlier those rebates no longer exist

carolina-moscoso | 2 years and 6 months ago

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For now, Eman. For now. It’s all part of a long-term strategy that as an HVAC professional you can either embrace and evolve with, or resist or retire.

Guest User | 2 years and 6 months ago

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60 percent of electricity in nyc comes from gas generated plants

carolina-moscoso | 2 years and 6 months ago

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Eman, Respect that you install Mitsubishi mini splits but do you live in a home where they provide full-load heat? I live in two of them. There is a reason why your customers want them installed — they work. ConEd gave me 32k because New York State has determined that today’s heat pumps are a better, more convenient way to keep your home comfortable all year long, without burning fossil fuels like oil, propane, or natural gas. I hear so many complaints from my friends in the HVAC installation and service industry about mini-splits and when pressed on it, I usually learn that they either just don’t want to learn the systems to do maintenance and repair or resent having to spend 3 hours waiting for Mitsubishi to call them for a remote diagnostic in order to get warranty service approval. Better technology will come out but despite what you might think, mini-splits are as tried and true in many parts of the world as gas and oil heat is here, and not some interim stop-gap technology you think it is.

Guest User | 2 years and 6 months ago

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I’m a heating professional and have installed mitsubishi mini splits because clients want them… still think that their heating quality is crap… ConED gave you rebates because they want to capture your business, just like the old “cooking with gas” promotions in the 1950s and 60s… they are going to recoup that 32 grand over time as electric rates rise … remember the adage “never take advice from someone who is trying to sell you something”

carolina-moscoso | 2 years and 6 months ago

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Eman, it’s not one or the other. They serve different purposes for different home configurations. For example, a brownstone with a gas-fired hydronic radiator system could certainly benefit from a heat pump boiler conversion if existing radiator runs and locations are sufficient. If you have a steam system, why would you re-pipe instead of using mini-splits? The whole point of a mini-split system is it makes retrofitting in older homes a whole lot easier than re-piping or making major ductwork changes. Sure, I would always prefer hydronic heat over blown air, but the cost to pipe the entire house would have been silly. We also have a bad duct layout in my house. Heat didn’t directly hit every room and the return registers are in silly locations. Sure we could have just paired a Mitsubishi unit with our Carrier blower and used existing ductwork, but the mini-splits allowed us to hit every single room on every floor without major renovations to ductwork. ConEd wouldn’t have given me 32k worth of rebates for the project if the technology didn’t work.

RobertGMarvin

in General Discussion 2 years and 6 months ago

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The manufacturer doesn’t seem to think that heat pumps will be ideal for areas lol ours:

Heat pumps are often the best solution to decarbonising heating in suburban or rural areas where properties are dispersed. In densely populated areas, the most cost-effective solution is to capture waste heat, from sources such as energy recovery plants, and supply it to homes and businesses via district heating networks.“

Guest User | 2 years and 6 months ago

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Replacing steam systems such as I have in my home is a whole other set of problems… I’d have to repipe the building to hydronic heat to use a high temp heat pump boiler

Guest User | 2 years and 6 months ago

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i think the heat pump boilers will be the wave of the future…not the current batch of mini splits available in the U S
https://group.vattenfall.com/uk/newsroom/pressreleases/2022/vattenfall-launches-heat-pump-solution-to-replace-gas-boilers