Hydronic radiant floor heating questions

Hi, I’ve read through all of the posts concerning radiant floor heating and still have some questions. We are in the process of planning a renovation of a 2600 sq ft. 3 story attached brownstone. The house is in “estate” condition with original details we wish to save, but all of the systems of the house are shot.

We are replacing all plumbing, electrical and heating. We are also doing joist sistering on the 2nd floor and 1st floor extension. A lot of the demolition has been done so we can see hopefully all of the issues we are facing. We will save the plaster ceilings on all floors, original parquet on 1st floor. The flooring on 2nd and 3rd floor as well as as 1st floor extension has been removed in order to perform electrical, plumbing and joist repair.

The architect proposed mini splits with hyper heat. I’m fine with this for supplemental heat and of course cooling. I really don’t want to be cold or too dry in the winter and think since we are taking up the floors on the 2nd and 3rd floors, that putting in a hydronic radiant floor heating system makes sense.

My spouse is concerned that is the system has problems or leaks that we’d have to rip up the floor. I’ve not seen evidence of this in my research, but maybe someone can educate me about the pitfalls.

The architect thinks a radiant system will be very expensive and blow our budget. I got one rough estimate from a plumber of $50K, which doesn’t phase me considering some of the other costs. Any knowledge of the typical cost in NYC?

This particular plumber did tell me that an electric hot water heater with heat pump is not code for NYC. I have friends in Philly installing this. Can anyone speak to what is code here? I’d like to consider eventually adding solar to mitigate the ongoing costs. Or should we just go with gas since the current monthly cost would be lower than electric and/or is an electric hot water heater not up to code for this here?

Lastly, I’d like to also use hydronic radiant heat on the 1st floor under the existing parquet. We have access to the joists underneath in the basement. We would install reflector plates? Plumber thought this would be fine, we just would have cold spots where the existing joists run.

Anything else I should consider?

Thank you!

shahnandersen

in General Discussion 3 years and 9 months ago

26

Please log in, in order to post replies!

26 replies

Newest Oldest

Guest User | 3 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "3"
string(6) "200749"

Yes, of course. jdbrooklyn19@gmail.com

slimc | 3 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#137703 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#137702 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "177080"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(5) "slimc"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BRwHbpsTCIzijIQaF3RE5jEha/vxZh/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(5) "slimc"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(21) "slimchancey@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(20) "/forums/users/slimc/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2013-06-24 17:25:15"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(45) "1725546075:$P$Bkb3cmBuZPrPksim3f2NiwCwWyp8eC0"
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(5) "slimc"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(177080)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

@janedrew May I contact you personally – I have a question about one of your posts?

Guest User | 3 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "3"
string(6) "200749"

I struggled just like you. Didn’t get anywhere with plumbers but hvac person was helpful and I did my own research/planning. You can call warm board and eco warm and get a ballpark. If you post your plans am sure some smart people here will weigh in.

shahnandersen

in General Discussion 3 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "2"
object(WP_User)#137714 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#137693 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(1) "6"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "shahnandersen"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "shahnandersen"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(31) "brownstoner@brownstoner.com.old"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(27) "brownstoner.com/renovation1"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2006-09-08 20:12:54"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(6)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(0) {
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(0) {
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(0) {
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Thanks for the additional feedback. I didn’t include all of the square feet of the house, but I’m wondering if the plumber and GC did include more than needed. They said it would be the kitchen on the 1st floor (less than 100 feet of open space). 2nd & 3rd floor bedrooms and hallways, 500-600 feet per floor. So, really a total of less than 1300 sq/ft. The architect thought this was high and reached out to two more plumbers, who did not get back to him. I’m trying to figure out next steps. Do I just try calling more plumbers and hope someone calls back? Do I call ecowarm and warmboard to get their input?

Guest User | 3 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "3"
string(6) "200749"

Great points. MP and thank you for adding your perspective. It’s always helpful. I understand there are different ways to get there. I wasn’t implying any judgement on price but it’s important for people to understand and break down things into parts and then figure out what’s an absolute necessity. That goes for anything.

Master Plvmber | 3 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4861 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4859 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(4) "1447"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(14) "Master Plvmber"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BSHLZQSJWUzjnaSv9fyWJpNYjwcz.u."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(14) "Master Plvmber"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(24) "info@gatewayplumbing.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(30) "http://www.GatewayPlumbing.com"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2007-08-10 20:40:53"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(14) "Master Plvmber"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(1447)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

I’ve installed several radiant floor heating (RFH) systems that have run deep into 6 digits. You get there kinda quickly if you include all the bells and whistles of a modern American installation, and engineers tend to go that way. Many hand the floor plans over to a manufacturer to specify the layout and all the material and so you end up with a truckload of stuff that takes weeks or months to install. You need some VE (value engineering).
RFH came to us from Europe but adapting it to our building methods has made it far more complicated than it was ever intended. We build with wood. Much of Europe builds with stone and masonry materials only. To keep our wood sub/flooring from drying out and shrinking we have to put great care into controlling the low temperatures we use to heat a floor. In Europe, they haphazardly put some tubing on the floor, pour and tile over it, connect the tubes to a low temperature heat source and call it done. We get nuts with tempering valves, temperature sensors, control wiring, way too many pumps, and more.

workisfun | 3 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5137 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5136 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "184143"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(9) "workisfun"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(63) "$wp$2y$10$hnv.j/crhn7RG.nsGO1eX.Q65deVjX8hSzKwgFlJuR8WiCptOt2gW"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(9) "workisfun"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(21) "joshsimilar@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 13:28:04"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(9) "workisfun"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(184143)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Or run your hydronic supply lines through the hallways and other secondary areas for passive heat as it passes through. Or on the way back.

Guest User | 3 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "3"
string(6) "200749"

Are you calculating every sq ft of the house? I don’t know if you need to do hydronic in bathrooms and hallways necessarily? You could out electric mats or radiators in some of the smaller areas. Can you elaborate on where this 100k number came from?

shahnandersen

in General Discussion 3 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "2"
object(WP_User)#137712 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5150 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(1) "6"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "shahnandersen"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "shahnandersen"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(31) "brownstoner@brownstoner.com.old"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(27) "brownstoner.com/renovation1"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2006-09-08 20:12:54"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(6)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(0) {
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(0) {
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(0) {
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

hi again, I finally got a VERY informal quote from the plumber via my GC. I get the feeling they don’t want to do this. Was told it would be almost $100K to only do less than 2K sqft of the house. This would be two upper floors and one lower floor of the extension. So over $50/ft. This does not include the warm board. Any opinions here?

ellenlourie | 3 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#137716 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#137717 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "209451"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(11) "ellenlourie"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BW7BCPC4MhhU4md6aHcLH/64c1GhM1/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(11) "ellenlourie"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(22) "ellen.lourie@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2024-06-29 12:47:36"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(11) "ellenlourie"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(209451)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

http://www.ultra-fin.com
https://radiantcooling.com

workisfun | 3 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5150 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#137713 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "184143"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(9) "workisfun"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(63) "$wp$2y$10$hnv.j/crhn7RG.nsGO1eX.Q65deVjX8hSzKwgFlJuR8WiCptOt2gW"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(9) "workisfun"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(21) "joshsimilar@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 13:28:04"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(9) "workisfun"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(184143)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

My in-slab hydronic radiant is all the heat we need on our just over-50% above grade lower level. Low temp. Crappy windows.

Guest User | 3 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "3"
string(6) "200749"

Thank you. Very helpful answer. I always thought mine was messy as I have a combination. I expect it’s more common than we think as people don’t necessarily want to redo floors or run ducts.

Master Plvmber | 3 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#137701 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#137696 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(4) "1447"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(14) "Master Plvmber"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BSHLZQSJWUzjnaSv9fyWJpNYjwcz.u."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(14) "Master Plvmber"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(24) "info@gatewayplumbing.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(30) "http://www.GatewayPlumbing.com"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2007-08-10 20:40:53"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(14) "Master Plvmber"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(1447)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Judging from the plans I get from Architects, Engineers, and Contractors lately, I’d say no one heats a home exclusively with either radiant floor heating or mini-splits. It’s always a combination of at least those two systems, and yes, “trench heating” is certainly common in areas where it isn’t desirable to give up floor space or where a wash of warm convective air currents serve to keep condensation off a cold surface like a glass door or something.

Guest User | 3 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "3"
string(6) "200749"

@MP what do people do for cooling with Warmboard. Mini Splits? Also how popular is trench heating?

Master Plvmber | 3 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#137709 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#137708 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(4) "1447"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(14) "Master Plvmber"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BSHLZQSJWUzjnaSv9fyWJpNYjwcz.u."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(14) "Master Plvmber"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(24) "info@gatewayplumbing.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(30) "http://www.GatewayPlumbing.com"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2007-08-10 20:40:53"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(14) "Master Plvmber"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(1447)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

At a glance, Eco Warm looks pretty much like the same thing as Warmboard. Same process.
Installing on the underside of a floor is my least favorite method. You have to run the water temperature too hot to achieve any savings.

shahnandersen

in General Discussion 3 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "2"
object(WP_User)#4856 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#137697 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(1) "6"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "shahnandersen"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "shahnandersen"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(31) "brownstoner@brownstoner.com.old"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(27) "brownstoner.com/renovation1"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2006-09-08 20:12:54"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(6)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(0) {
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(0) {
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(0) {
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Thanks for all the comments and information. Has anyone worked with eco warm radiant board? It looks like it may be easier to install and maybe a better product. Also, anyone have experience with installing from the underside of an existing floor? We have one floor we aren’t removing and I want to understand feasibility or any differences in cost.

Master Plvmber | 3 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#137712 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#137716 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(4) "1447"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(14) "Master Plvmber"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BSHLZQSJWUzjnaSv9fyWJpNYjwcz.u."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(14) "Master Plvmber"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(24) "info@gatewayplumbing.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(30) "http://www.GatewayPlumbing.com"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2007-08-10 20:40:53"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(14) "Master Plvmber"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(1447)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

I’ve installed over 200,000 square feet of radiant heating and more than half has been with Warmboard. It’s by far the best way to do it but it’s pretty labor intensive for the carpenter/GC.

Guest User | 3 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "3"
string(6) "200749"

The combi boiler and manifold zones will be at least double the warmboard. The boiler distributors will have a list of plumbers. I had to inform the plumber on all the venting rules as had been burned before so I was cautious. Augustiner’s numbers are right though NYC there is no 0-14, I’d start at 15 for base cost. Anyway there are other options to Warmboard.

Augustiner | 3 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5137 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5142 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "45573"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(10) "Augustiner"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$B34SD8yEA6Hi8EPJJfH83mCf4GZmmP0"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(10) "augustiner"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(18) "flo@flat-peach.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(32) "http:///forums/users/augustiner/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 13:35:10"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(6) "August"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(45573)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Definitely nice to have, but
A quick Google search says warm board is $1
0-$15 installed, in nyc $ that’s $18 😉
Then add pex, manifolds, condensing boiler, permits, labor, insurance, trash plus „everything is double after covid“ – I would probably keep 20k stashed away just in case.
Also make sure your plumber has done this work before and you don’t pay him to practice on your job.