How to install boards to finish ceiling?
Architect is going for sauna/spa vibes with this one. Calls for 1″x6″ boards to run along the ceiling. Picture attached for reference.
Here’s the homedepot link to the board
How would you guys achieve this look? [76D89A2405594AEF953C48436CB68D43](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s1/:brownstoner:stPM:76d89a2405594aef953c48436cb68d43.jpg.jpg)
Jimmy
in General Discussion 3 years and 1 month ago
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32 replies
andriywww1990 | 3 years ago
i have not seen one of those since my grandfather passed away.
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 3 years ago
Yes, it has a plunger-like thingie
stevecym | 3 years and 1 month ago
The flushing line. Bob, when i moved to sunnyside in 1995, my grandfather said “that’s on the flushing line”. Us kids know it as the 7 train.
I bet that stapler has one of those plunger things on top that you hit with the palm of your hand. Yep, my grandad had one of those.
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 3 years and 1 month ago
I think Swingline staplers are still made, but not I’m LIC or Brooklyn. I remember passing the LIC factory on the Flushing Line when I lived in Queens. I still have a ‘40s Swingline stapler that belonged to my Father.
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 1 month ago
swingline must have been all over. they had one in long island city by the railroad tracks, i guess skillman ave. i think they were trying to landmark the sign years ago.
i remember the schools had a swingline stapler, i think it was a 747 like the plane.
i just realized, i have an old swingline on my desk and just checked, it says LIC, NY on it. i went through a lot of cheap, crappy plastic staplers before i found this one at a yard sale. this one is probably like 40 years old. i have had it for at least ten years.
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 3 years and 1 month ago
Oh—I u send to drive past the Swingline factory when I drive home from work (they were near th Brooklyn end of the Interboro Parkway) but I don’t know much about Bostich.
stevecym | 3 years and 1 month ago
Someplace i talk about bostich and mention that you recall when bostich was known as the boston stitching company. I got that a little off: it was the boston wire stitcher company. I do better with dates and years and such.
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 3 years and 1 month ago
??? 🙂
stevecym | 3 years and 1 month ago
Read back.
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 3 years and 1 month ago
You’ve got me stumped Steve; how do you “know” I didn’t read what you wrote?
(I REALLY did, although it’s always possible that I might have missed something).
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 1 month ago
bob, most of the people on here don’t want to read what i write and some may not understand it. those who understand it have probably attempted all this stuff and encountered the headaches i have suffered. what many people do not understand and i tell people (other contractors and even my own family who think i tell people too much) this all the time: help a few people on here and good for them if they can do this based on what i say; i am happy for them. all of the other people, including people who do not own a hammer and do not care what a hammer is used for will call and ask us to do the project because they know the only way you learn this stuff is by doing it a lot (and making a lot of mistakes). this thing about being secretive with how things are done, it does not work. People who think they know something that others do not are wrong; someone out there could have said what i said above but they are not on here. be open, tell them everything and the phone will ring and it does. older contractors and successful people in trades, etc were like tha t when i was a kid, they told us young guys everything if we were willing to listen (that, not listening, was sometimes a problem and now that those people are gone it is too late).
But Robert, you really should read what i wrote. see how i knew you didn’t?
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 3 years and 1 month ago
I’m reading Steve, but wouldn’t dream, rank amateur that I am, to c attempt to add anything to your wealth of knowledge about woodworking. 🙂
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 1 month ago
so about shims. anybody doing anything such as cabinet hanging, setting crown molding, setting the t&g boards to a ceiling would be wise to have a lot of shims around. sometimes they are needed to actually set and hold something away from something long term and sometimes they are only temporary while things are being nailed or waiting for adhesive to dry.
this is the issue with the modern shims: they taper to almost 1/8″ and stop (I put a vernier on one yesterday for this reply and it was a 1/10 of an inch). the old starter course shims taper to paper thin. this is important: when nyc sport mentioned lining up butt joints, he or she was not talking about something being out of alignment by 1/4″ or 1/8″, they meant down to 1/16″ or 1/32″ or even 1/64″. when we are setting cabinets (which i no longer do) and are aligning the face frames, they have to be perfect, not 1/64″ or 1/128″ off. perfect. we cannot do that with shims that taper to 1/8 of an inch because trying to use them would throw the cabinet or board we are trying to shim out too far out, in front of the one next to it we are trying to equal.
let me explain why else shims are useful, beyond aligning. you may actually have something placed nicely (straight), like the furring that sport and i think Green talk about. or some trim around a room. or the boards op is talking about. and you feel you need another nail or maybe to catch a stud or joist you must place that nail or screw in THAT spot – not 4″ to the side. If you have a gap between what what you are setting (furring, molding or boards) and the substrate in that spot and your furring or finish trim is other wise straight, placing the nail or screw will throw it off (deflect it) and will throw the entire job off including any unglued butt joints (the deflection will change the trajectory of the wood and by the time you get to the end of it, it might stick out and even if it is not sticking out, you are turning the wood in such a way that you have opened the joint up and all the nails in the world may not close it. on the furring this can follow through to the finish product (some trim and finish wood is nailed “floating”; a little loose to prevent some of this). But 1/32″ can be visible. so what do you do? put a shim behind the furring or trim
where you wish to nail or screw it and break it off later if need be. but the shims have to taper to less than 1/8″ to use them in most of these situations.
by the way, when us boys were in 9th grade wood shop, it was not “tongue and groove”; it was t “in” g and i almost made the mistake of writing that yesterday but caught it.
where is bob marvin these days? i can tell he is not reading.
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 1 month ago
Sport mentioned that it is hard to get the butt joints to line up while laying the tongue & groove. Even on hardwood flooring which has a very tight fitting tongue and groove, the surfaces where the board meet are uneven, even with the t&g on the ends. that is partly why new hardwood floors must be sanded after installation. but this issue will be worse with the loose fitting pine boards op is asking about because their is more play in the T&G and these boards must be left a little loose to account for expansion.
shimming is a way to level the two butt joints out as we affix them to ceilings and other places. if one is a little low, shim it to raise it to the other. When i first went to work, we only used starter course shims for real shakes to do this sort of work. they come in big bundles (home depot dropped them during covid). There were no shims sitting in little packages next to the cash register. I prefer to use the old starter course shims. they are easier to use and trying to use these new ones can be just as bad as having no shim at all. i would rather make them out of match book covers.
is there anyone on the board who can tell me what is so undesirable about the new shims sold in HD and the hardware stores? if you answer, you are giving your age away.
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 1 month ago
thank you for that. sport, no one has talked about these on here before. i myself only use a narrow crown stapler (in addition to the brad nailers) here in my shop and even that i rarely use as it is leftover from when i made cabinet boxes and i used to staple the backs. after you said what you did yesterday, i took a look at what is on the market and even began to read – there is a lot out there. Metabo is making staples now and for those who don’t know, metabo is the high end tool company that most of us have never heard of and we will never see in HD (i think they are german; like an Audi).
I have never used that kind of flooring stapler and in truth did not know there is such a beast. But my GUESS is that these are made for the thinner engineered flooring (that i know nothing about). Potential users should keep in mind if we take a tool from what it is intended for and use it someplace else, there are risks. in this case, the flooring staplers and nailers have a “nose” and lip on them that sits down over the tongue and against the side of the face of the wood. these devices are pretty much set for certain thicknesses of wood and if we move away from that thickness it will place the nail too high or low in the crotch between the tongue and the side of the face. i suspect the wood the OP is trying to use and the thickness of the floors that these staplers are designed for are comparable and this tool may be a good choice. but we have to be aware that there can be issues (how many tools have i bought or borrowed from other industries to try out someplace they are not designed for and they do not work? dozens of times). also, i suspect that there may now be “adjustable” nailers on the market to deal with issues such as these. i do not have time to look but it makes sense with all the different things out there – both material wise and tool wise.
i will say this. i have had to suffer with cheap air guns. even if i were a home owner, i would not buy a smaller name. i only buy Porter Cable and Bostich (bob marvin remembers when “Bostich” was called the “Boston Stitching Company”). the better brands are Senco and Metabo. Craftsman used to be made by Senco and guys i knew used to go buy the craftsman nailers even though we thought everything else about craftsman is poor (at least their power tools). and dewalt is fine for a homeowner. i use dewalt for guns i rarely use and they work fine – i am just afraid they will not take the abuse that someone like me would give them. this is what i would be afraid of with homeowners trying to do this with a cheap tool: they will have such a bad experience because really cheap tools can be very difficult to use that they will toss the tool in the trash and give up.
NYC Sport, there is a lot more to flush out here and i have to get to work. someone should find out if they make adjustable guns to accommodate varying thicknesses of wood. (we can also use a thin piece of wood to shim a nailer or stapler out, but cutting wood to that specific a thickness may be beyond someone who does not have a table saw handy).
nyc_sport | 3 years and 1 month ago
Obviously, a professional tool is much more money. But a simple DIYer flooring nailer
https://www.amazon.com/WEN-61741-18-Gauge-Pneumatic-Flooring/dp/B073X8SCJK/ref=sr_1_8?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9fLb4PnF9wIV6fvICh3uPwTdEAAYASAAEgIXe_D_BwE&hvadid=410022268071&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9067609&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=14190202323125661025&hvtargid=kwd-128910496&hydadcr=8462_11337791&keywords=pneumatic+flooring+nailer&qid=1651670957&sr=8-8
And coated flooring staples
https://www.homedepot.com/p/POWERNAIL-1-4-in-x-1-1-2-in-18-Gauge-Glue-Collated-Narrow-Crown-Staples-for-Woodwork-and-Flooring-5000-per-Box-PS18150/311949967
stevecym | 3 years and 1 month ago
I kind of figured out that it was not an arrow but most people would not follow that through without being told – they would guess. Even i. I have never laid a modern wood floor with staples. I think i know what you mean, my mother had one of those floors put in and the wood or whatever it is made of is like 1/2 thick. i am sure it was not put in with cleats. But still, that leaves me wondering what kind of staples. I mean i can look, but at this point you are not only teaching others about new technology but me as well. For the benefit of the reader, maybe elaborate. Someone on here might try to do this
Btw, true old style t&g flooring is still put in with cleats because the force of the hammer is needed to drive the boards together. They are real, heavy oak and the sometimes have little bows to them that a press of the finger or even a foot will not straighten out. Laid out on their own there would be gaps all over the place.
All these nuances, we learn them by doing.
nyc_sport | 3 years and 1 month ago
I am not referring to any Arrow hobby staples. Most hardwood flooring is “nailed” with staples, not nails (or cleats). Using a proper coated staple the coating melts and effectively turns to glue when driven into the substrate with a pneumatic staple gun. And the staples are shot at an angle so they do not loosen when the wood expands (a flooring nailer will make that easier).
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 1 month ago
if someone is thinking ahead like NYC -Sport, then using the adhesive is out because it will make a mess when the wood is one day removed.
Sport, i suspect you mean narrow crown staples, not simply “staples”. at first glance i thought of an arrow t-50 but i am not certain one of those has to push to do this sort of thing.
the toe nailing will still hold the wood in drywall so long as the drywall is the heavy stuff (5/8″) and every other board is applied with adhesive. the nail gun has to be set so the nails are not pushing through the wood. narrow crown staples cannot be toed nailed the same way and yes, they will pull out of drywall sort of easy. they are nice to use on wood.
in so far as aligning the ends of the butt joint: anyone doing any sort of trim work would be wise to have some starter course shims around (i never go to any job without shims and every time i think i will be ok without them, i need them). And I mean real starter course shims. these are the shakes used for the starter course on the exterior of a house NOT the little packet s of shims they sell on the counter in the hardware store. Home Depot sold real starter course shims in big bundles in the lumber aisle but a year or so ago stopped carrying them. shims allow us to offset any unevenness in the substrate or even the product we are applying.
can anyone on here tell me the advantage REAL cedar starter course shims might serve over the plastic wrapped product sold in the hardware store and how that might help someone trying to align a butt joint in wood being applied to a less than perfect flat surface?