How efficient are the heat pump powered water heaters?

There’s a lot of buzz around heat pump water heaters and its efficiency. Given the low tax credit/rebates offered by the government, is it worth to switch to heat pumps in my state (North Dakota)?

emmanuelle.gordon

in General Discussion 2 years and 3 months ago

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RobertGMarvin

in General Discussion 2 years and 2 months ago

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Geothermal would indeed be v a dream. If only someone would devise a method for drilling down within the confines of a row house cellar.

cate | 2 years and 2 months ago

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A heat pump water heater that is geothermal and able to heat to the high level required by a Brooklyn hydronic cast iron radiator system and also high enough for the domestic hot water supply would be a dream come true, but AFAIK this isn’t yet possible. Maybe in Iceland this works, but AFAIK the underground water temperature in Brooklyn (and perhaps much of the U.S. and Canada?) is not hot enough for this application. It is hot enough, however, to run in-floor radiant heat and forced air HVAC. However, the latter are not suitable for many old houses such as mine. Another consideration is it’s difficult to put in geothermal in a row house but I hear someone is working on a version that can go in the cellar. (We happen to be next to an empty lot so we can access the backyard but most are not.)

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 3 months ago

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Op and agustiner are talking about a heat pump water heater. I missed that and referred to heat pumps in general. But now i am wondering if they can be run more efficiently in winter in a warmer space.

cate | 2 years and 3 months ago

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If there’s a technology that will keep my building warm in winter, cool in summer, and at the same time cool and dehumidify my cellar, I don’t follow what you are talking about but I would like to know more.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 3 months ago

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Augustiner, in a more general sense. If we began mounting big heat pumps for home heating in basements.

Augustiner | 2 years and 3 months ago

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You can think of it as an air conditioner’ mounted on top of the water tank. It transfers the heat from the air space into the water so to speak, while cooling and dehumidifying the space it sits in.

You could also use the process heat from a ductless mini split in cooling mode (which is what HomeInspector is hinting at). The technology exists but is used more in an industrial setting (for example VRF systems that can cool and heat at the same time, the units are on the roof.) the main issue here is that there is no intersection between the HVAC trade and plumbing.

If I may add – the most energy efficient system would be to use a solar thermal water heating system (heat from panels on the roof is transferred to a tank in the cellar, not electricity) with a heat pump water heater as backup.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 3 months ago

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so what would happen if people began putting the heat pumps used for heating houses in their basements or some other area like a garage that might remain at 40 degrees all winter? i know one downside is that they double as air conditioners and they would probably heat the space to temperatures too hot for the equipment to operate in the summer. but why not a shed attached to a house that can be vented in the summer? what is the downside to this? besides noise.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 3 months ago

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I believe you are correct augustiner. I was thinking of something that sits on the side of a house.

Augustiner | 2 years and 3 months ago

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I believe the OP is asking about air source heat pump water heaters, such as Stiebel Eltron Accelera, AO Smith Voltex, Rheem Proterra.

Works perfectly fine. I have 2 Stiebel Eltron Accelera 300 installed in a 3 family building in Brooklyn since. 10 years. If your cellar gets very cold in winter it’s maybe not the best idea, otherwise just go for it.

RobertGMarvin

in General Discussion 2 years and 3 months ago

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Cate,
Are you saying that geothermal would make sense if you currently have hot air heat? Go you know of anyone in Brooklyn who’s done it?

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 3 months ago

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Cate, we are talking brooklyn but the guy in the Dakotas may not have a resource up there and in truth, we are in a zone where these pumps may not work on some of the coldest days. the efficiency declines more and more as the temp drops below freezing. we all have to consider this as we decide what to do moving forward. it seems the manufacturers admit this is a sort of problem. i disliked heat pumps when i was in college in NC.

cate | 2 years and 3 months ago

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This site is about Brooklyn, and the New York State rebates are good. If you have forced air heat or radiant floor heat or are building a new place that could use either of those, geothermal makes a lot of sense. It’s not so compatible with radiator systems or wood floors in an old house.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 3 months ago

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i posted something from a UK manufacturer of heat pumps on here a few months back and they stated that as the temp dropped from 25 F the efficiency declined until they got down to about 11 f at which point they would not really function and you would rely on auxiliary heat (prob an electric coil = $$). they stated that people in “canada” would find these to be less than ideal. it is a few months back.

emmanuelle.gordon | 2 years and 3 months ago

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I was googling about efficiency of heat pump based water heaters and comparing rebates offered by various states. I also got to know about huge rebates offered by countries like Australia. In some states (like Victoria) of Australia, heat pump water heating systems are even free of some households and businesses.
https://www.timetosave.com.au/heat-pump-hot-water-system-government-rebate/
I wonder why our state governments don’t offer such rebates.

emmanuelle.gordon | 2 years and 3 months ago

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I was googling about efficiency of heat pump based water heaters and comparing rebates offered by various states. I also got to know about huge rebates offered by countries like Australia. In some states (like Victoria) of Australia, heat pump water heating systems are even free of some households and businesses.
https://www.timetosave.com.au/heat-pump-hot-water-system-government-rebate/
I wonder why our state governments don’t offer such rebates.