Heatpumps in Summer

So, several owners on my block are doing gut-renovations and from the looks of it, installing heatpumps as the only heating source to free up mechanical space in basements.

Bad idea, but that’s been talked about over and over on this forum.

I’ve owned Mitsu Hyper-Heats for nearly 10 years in Bay Ridge, and just wanted to add ANOTHER piece of experienced advice to those who go the heatpump route.

Do NOT install the in wall (hidden) air-handlers.

These units do NOT provide a humidity eliminating setting which essentially removes the “water” from the air and cools by fan only.

It’s a subtle point, but the onwall air handlers provide a setting which does NOT fire up the compressor (expensive) and will cool a room or whole house for essentially pennies via the humidity reducing fan ALONE.

jrs84o

in General Discussion 2 years ago

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jrs84o | 1 year and 11 months ago

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Yeah.. Heat pumps sound like an ideal “solution.” ON paper, they free up mechanical space and are cheaper to install than ducted units.

Problem is Heat pumps blow about 110° at the vents. By the time the air circulates to the center of the room its 90-95°.. Less than body temperature. Thats why heat pumps feel cold, compared to gas or oil which blows up to 140° at the register.

Until you experience this difference for yourself, theres just no way to explain it to the enthusiastic renovator.

Kinda like SOLAR, which is another big rip off.. But I know that will bring comments so I wont go there..!!..!!

Guest User | 1 year and 11 months ago

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regarding Randolphs comment on replacement of units being a supply chain issue…absolutely not
I install and service hvac systems and heat pumps since clients demanded it even though my personal preference leans toward gas fired heating.
about 2-3 years ago I had to service a Fujitsu mini split system that was 10 years old, and the outdoor and indoor units were discontinued models …both indoor and out door units were incompatible with any of the newer units so both had to be replaced… was able to use the old linesets after flushing and nitrogen testing, but it was still not a cheap date
the updates and replacement on heat pumps is way faster than boilers, so, quite often you wind up with a very young dinosaur that is more expensive to service than to replace

jrs84o | 1 year and 11 months ago

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Yeah… “Tea Room and Lounge,” LOL. My wife is English. Basically we have a classic 4 over 4 over 4…. Good comments, all.

justinromeu26 | 1 year and 11 months ago

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Thank you augustiner.

randolph | 1 year and 11 months ago

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I would agree with what Augustiner says – multiple outdoor units for consumption and also redundancy (if one fails the whole house isnt cold), and work with a good installer (we had a similar air intake issue in brooklyn that was basically impossible to deal with after the fact and the unit did not run as well because of it). can’t speak to the replacement issue, that sounds like an unrelated supply chain issue?

Augustiner | 2 years ago

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Another 10 year Mitsubishi city Multi user here, with concealed ducted units and lots of pain. Here are some tips from my experience
1 multiple smaller outdoor condensers are better than bigger units (electrical consumption in defrost mode triggers ConEd demand charges of several hundred dollars per month which are NOT based on consumption – in my case that 12 KW and the unit can’t be capped)
2. I concur with @850mph: stay away from concealed ducted units, but for different reasons:
a) contractors have not enough brains or care to install this right – intake has to be ducted to the room and not just suck air in from ceiling space – supply and return need to calculated properly
b) if you ever need to replace air handlers, for example if the compatible condenser series is not available for replacement 10 years later, you’ll have to open a lot of Sheetrock to replace the indoor units.
c) just generally, heating with HVAC is less comfortable because of the airflow
d) and just generally also: I had to replace the compressor once in the winter. Cost $4,000 and took 2 weeks. And I was lucky that there was 1 (!) matching compressor available domestically. Otherwise it would have been shipped from Japan. It’s also difficult to find HVAC pros that really know about Mitsubishi. And then expect to pay big money and you have no choice. Hell on earth.

All in all, consider that this system of heating is much more complicated and harder to service than hydronic (preferred), steam or forced air

randolph | 2 years ago

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I wish I had a tea room and a lounge.

jrs84o | 2 years ago

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My 24,000BTU air handler in DRY MODE (fan only) cools the complete 1,000 sq/ft 1st floor portion of my property– essentially Kitchen, Dining Room, Tea Room and Lounge. I do have Mitsu air handlers in each room but use only the Lounge unit to dehumidify and cool.

Upstairs, I installed the “ducted” version of the same air-handlers in the cock’s loft and vented into the top floor rooms via simple linear bar registers.

My upstairs units will not dehumidify, so I need to keep them in COOLING mode– which work well– but at the added cost of running the compressor full time– $$$$$.

Im just say’in the dehumidify mode works about as well as my old in wall AC unit.

Guest User | 2 years ago

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is it the same case for Ceiling Cassette Mini Split AC & Heat Units? I Opted to convert oil to gas for heating but was heavily considering heat units.

randolph | 2 years ago

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i had the 2 of the ceiling recessed units in my house in brooklyn hooked up to ductwork and they had a DRY mode. i could honestly never tell the difference so i just kept it on COOL.

cate | 2 years ago

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We’re thinking of adding HVAC via hidden mini-splits. Wouldn’t mini-splits have the same capabilities regardless of whether they are hidden or visible? (Not all hidden AC systems are mini-splits.)

randolph | 2 years ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4828 (8) {
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  object(stdClass)#5081 (12) {
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    string(5) "26171"
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    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$Bkj16FushDhH.ZkZpciKBwc2QcqOxt."
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    string(8) "randolph"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(29) "andrewdouglasgrieve@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(30) "http:///forums/users/randolph/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2009-02-26 15:39:31"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(8) "randolph"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
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  ["ID"]=>
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    ["subscriber"]=>
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  ["cap_key"]=>
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  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
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}

Fan mode doesn’t turn on the compressor, but Dry mode turns it on just at a lower speed.