Heated Sidewalks
Our whole block was ticketed for sidewalk replacement by the city, which was a bummer. But we took the opportunity to put in heated sidewalks, and it was one of the best things we ever did. My husband and I did it ourselves and it was a relatively easy project, and cost about $1200 in materials, plus another $1000 to run the electric. We used Warmzone and they were very helpful and walked us through how to do it. Now, when it snows, we sip hot cocoa and watch the snow melt. Cost to operate is very low. I’ve been meaning to post this for a while now, and as the winter approaches it came to mind. If anyone needs to replace their sidewalks it’s something to consider.
JoeBrikman
in General Discussion 3 years and 11 months ago
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55 replies
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 10 months ago
Gennady, read the thread and watch the video someone posted. this is not about unknowing homeowners doing things wrong it is about paid predators misleading people.
what i think is “funny” is not that homeowners make mistakes. it is that these paid people knowingly did something wrong and they revealed who they are and used their properties as examples.
I will admit this here: as a contractor, i do not like professionals who mislead people because legitimate and hard working contractors have to “compete” against that misinformation. it makes it harder for people who want to do the right thing to make a living.
ellenlourie | 3 years and 10 months ago
Regarding illegal work, I see it all the time. People do not know rules and regulations. They don’t do their homework and hire unqualified contractors or do it themselves.
ellenlourie | 3 years and 10 months ago
I actually have a degree in engineering. As well I hold a plumbing licence in nyc and state of Florida. And as funny as it sounds to you, people do excavations and sidewalk concrete work in ny. Not today. And not tomorrow. Maybe years from now. And someone who will do that work can get hurt.
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 10 months ago
thanks gennady. so you are a licensed engineer and are saying these people (who admit that they did not follow the applicable codes and who have revealed their identities and addresses to the public) did something that could lead to the electrocution of the member of the public?
this is laughable. don’t get me wrong. people have always done things wrong and so have i, but we don’t advertise that fact to the public or anyone else. the implication i am making is, if people no longer make an effort to hide their dangerous or illegal behavior, it shows that this behavior has become mainstream and all of us have to be careful not to become victims of it. this is especially true of the elderly and youngish homeowners and people new to our culture, especially here in NYC, where no matter how many laws they make, this stuff still runs rampant (i sometimes feel like the city can stop it but do not want to out of fear it will slow economic activity).
the existence of people like this is the reason why when my 80 year old mother who lives on Long Island calls to tell me about something she is having done on her house that i have to listen to EVERY word she says about the contractor and what they will be doing because i know there WILL be a day (it is not a matter of “if” it is a matter of “when”) that i have to get in the car and race out to the east end to deal with some dishonest contractor who has no business taking people’s money. i am a contractor and several times a year i hear horror stories of what less than scrupulous people do to people in this city.
ellenlourie | 3 years and 10 months ago
City must know what’s in the concrete. In case of the sensor malfunction, and electric snowmelt is on when no snow present, and for some reason there is an excavation, people can be electrocuted. Staff hits the fan when you least expect.
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 11 months ago
If op and her spouse and that video maker really wanted to provide a service to the community, they would suggest that Warm Zone post an ad here as part of its marketing plan and the op or that guy in the video could come on here and reference the ad and answer questions about the product, truthfully. that would be a win/win for all and help a lot of people. op could admit her connection to warm zone and no one would care.
Warm Zone would get an immense amount of business from a listing on here in a geographic area that would benefit from the product they offer. even just a small listing generates a lot of activity.
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 11 months ago
vard, accidental misinformation from a homeowner (with nothing to gain) on boards like this is wholly excusable.
misinformation on this board by contractors can happen and that is why people who speak with some sort of authority would be best to say “i am not fully trained in this” or “i saw someone do this once a long time ago” or “i am not an electrician and not qualified to say this”. this needs to be addressed when spotted, especially where safety is concerned.
intentional misinformation by someone being paid to spew it to promote something is wrong and must be called out and many forums have policies against it.
and people who have hidden connections to businesses who come on here to promote things must be exposed.
some of us older folks are not wrapped up in the internet thing like some young people and we recall a time when good journalism kept a lot of this in check – even advertising in papers like the NYT would have had some sense of integrity about it (if a newspaper reported something wrong there was always the letters to the editors page; that is now non-existent with a lot of what is on the ‘net and it is allowed to go unchecked). now, anything goes. people cannot spot truth from fiction and believe everything they see or hear, so long as it appeals to what they want to hear (“i can get the warmzone mat installed cheap and easy with no interference from any city agencies”). even that actor in that video, he has probably been doing this for so long and is so full of himself and his belief that everything he does is great (the old term for it is “arrogance”) that he might not be able to see how he can be hurting senior citizens or other with limited assets by withholding certain details or by deliberately telling people they can call the electrician after ordering the material – and even if he knows he is hurting these people, he is so far removed from them that he does not care. years ago, any principled person would have declined to say something that is misleading to preserve their own integrity. and the op, if she or her husband are connected to warmzone, she may be so wrapped up in this kind of marketing (the op and her husband are in involved in product promotion) and this system that she sees nothing wrong by posting something on here without revealing her connection. and i am sure a lot of people reading this do not understand what the fuss is i am making about this because all of this behavior has become mainstream.
fortunately this board gives us the opportunity to expose these people for who and what they are.
hasibur.rahman07 | 3 years and 11 months ago
@steve I got it – city contractors can be bad also. Doesn’t the city just sub contract to third parties anyway?
There is misinformation everywhere including this forum. Sometimes things are shared based on hearsay and not facts. The code is complicated and people are not aware of every rule. Even expediters and architects can’t keep track.
Master Plvmber | 3 years and 11 months ago
@mozeeatupu Thanks for clarifying. Their architect at the time called it “rent”.
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 11 months ago
vard, to what chris is saying. there is another post on here where someone just got a violation on their property because a licensed asbestos contractor made a couple of mistakes. if the city (or state) cannot find a way to license people who should be doing what they should be doing, how the hell can we expect the city to assign an “approved” contractor? it is sad but true that many homeowners are at the mercy of their own limited knowledge and a lot of luck when hiring anyone in this city and it is made worse by people who post misinformation or deliberately misleading information on the internet. this is why it is important that people who spot this stuff point it out and remain vigilant – because the city itself is inept and there are people in this world who take advantage of that as well as the public’s ignorance of the laws or codes.
in all honesty, i appreciate your comments because it gives me something to speak back to and because i find it repugnant that there are people in this world who use the internet in ways to spread misinformation to an unknowing populace to suit their own, sometimes hidden, agenda.
lkrshacmzcy | 3 years and 11 months ago
If Safety is the concern, the city and their contractors should stay far away…
hasibur.rahman07 | 3 years and 11 months ago
I think OP did a good thing without getting into rules, safety etc. which I agree with. It makes the sidewalk a lot safer than sloppy shoveling. The city should encourage more people to do it to ensure safety of pedestrians. They could always assign city approved contractors for safe installation similar to how Con Ed installs meters.
stevecym | 3 years and 11 months ago
Right, but a vault charge is revocable consent?
mozeeatupu | 3 years and 11 months ago
The city actually won’t fix sidewalks above vaults, the property owner must repair the sidewalk privately.
stevecym | 3 years and 11 months ago
Sort of like the vault charge commercial buildings pay for say a steam vault?
mozeeatupu | 3 years and 11 months ago
It’s not rent but an annual tax called DOT Revocable Consent.
Revocable Consent is required when someone wants to build something on public streets or sidewalks, they need to acquire a Revocable Consent from the NYC DOT.
DOT grants permission to applicants to occupy or use space on, over or under the City streets and sidewalks, charging fees for these uses.
hasibur.rahman07 | 3 years and 11 months ago
Thanks for explaining MP.
Master Plvmber | 3 years and 11 months ago
@vard01 Answering your question about electric vs hot water/glycol mixture, I’ll offer that electric is far simpler to install and much less costly to purchase all the stuff to make it work. The trade-off is that, just like any resistance heater, the heating elements are destined to fail at some point. You’re essentially warming your sidewalk with the technology of a toaster.
By comparison, a hydronic snow melting system will last indefinitely so long as the PEX or other tubing being used maintains its integrity, which, when encased in concrete, ought to be a really really long time. Kinda like forever. Hydronic systems are far more flexible than electric and there’s likely more heat to be gained from a boiler than may be available in a typical home’s electrical service. All electric heat takes a lot of energy to be effective.
With hydronic heat, operating water temperature, flow rate, outdoor reset, and other technology and control strategies are used to maximize efficiency and efficacy.
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 11 months ago
It appears that there may be some overlap between Brad Hurtado and a relation of OP’s. Both mention warm zone. we now know that brad is involved in video production. OP is related to someone who works in video production and like Brad, OP did not go through the hassle of getting the permit for the electric.
Is NYC truly this small of a town and are both the heating grid industry and video production industry this small and is there more than coincidence here?
i do not care if someone pulls a permit or not. i do not care what people do illegal in their house so long as it will not kill someone. it is the praying on unknowing homeowners i do not like and i cannot tell you how many times i have been called to a house to either install something or fix something that someone was told by some marketing idiot that it would work and it did not. it happens with lock sets all the time. the electrical stuff is much more serious and costly.
good work vard. good call.