heat pump quote - is this reasonable?

I am looking to install a new heating/cooling system in my house upstate. i got this quote, can anyone tell me if this seems reasonable? The job is repurposing all of the existing ductwork, electric, drains, thermostat wiring, but as noted new wiring has to be run for the heat pump because the existing system is AC only…the price quoted is $12,400 but they did not break it down at all so I have no idea how much is the equipment and how much is labor….

Install New First Co. Hydrocoil Handler
24,000 BTU capacity
Reconnect to existing heat lines
Reconnect to existing ductwork
Rewire system to handle heat pump function
Purge and bleed out heat lines from boiler
Reconnect to existing nest thermostat

Install New Lennox outdoor Heat Pump condenser
2 Ton, 16 SEER
Set on new level padding
Reconnect to existing electrical
Purge and drain refrigerant lines
Fill system with new R410A refrigerant
Run new thermostat wire from condenser to handler

any insight would be much appreciated. thanks.

randolph

in General Discussion 2 years and 8 months ago

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andriywww1990 | 2 years and 8 months ago

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Randolph, when this happen to me when i was hiring people or selecting contractors, if i really like a contractor and his price was much higher, i would ask them to justify the price. For the learning experience, get three quotes and ask them each to explain the price. If something sounds like bs, it might be bs.

lkrshacmzcy | 2 years and 8 months ago

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All being said: a company telling me 7,000 for a day of Unlicensed Trade Labor is definitely on the higher end of the cost spectrum so it can be reasonable if they are on the higher end of that value spectrum. A company that high end should have a lot of resources for you to vet them with.

lkrshacmzcy | 2 years and 8 months ago

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All being said: a company telling me 7,000 for a day of Unlicensed Trade Labor is definitely on the higher end of the cost spectrum so it can be reasonable if they are on the higher end of that value spectrum. A company that high end should have a lot of resources for you to vet them with.

lkrshacmzcy | 2 years and 8 months ago

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Randolph
Every company is different, but our costs are all fixed. Whether a job is in the Upper East Side or East New York the pricing is the same. Our projects are all based on scope; to the point I literally say “whether it takes 5 minutes, 5 hours or 5 days, this is the cost for X to be performed.”
By my comment I just meant it is impossible to say if a price is “reasonable” without knowing more information about the scope, the company performing the work and the terms of the contract.
For example:
HVAC Systems, especially Hyper Heat that run all year round, need to have maintenance performed in order to hold a warranty let alone function properly. For this reason, our company always includes two Service Visits per year for three years at a total of six included visits; this does cause our cost to come in higher than a company who is simply installing and leaving.
A good point is that a company should offer several options on your Installation. Take i t like a Basic, Medium and Advanced Package. That way they allow you to choose what is best; this eliminates the “Upsell.”

lkrshacmzcy | 2 years and 8 months ago

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Randolph
Every company is different, but our costs are all fixed. Whether a job is in the Upper East Side or East New York the pricing is the same. Our projects are all based on scope; to the point I literally say “whether it takes 5 minutes, 5 hours or 5 days, this is the cost for X to be performed.”
By my comment I just meant it is impossible to say if a price is “reasonable” without knowing more information about the scope, the company performing the work and the terms of the contract.
For example:
HVAC Systems, especially Hyper Heat that run all year round, need to have maintenance performed in order to hold a warranty let alone function properly. For this reason, our company always includes two Service Visits per year for three years at a total of six included visits; this does cause our cost to come in higher than a company who is simply installing and leaving.
A good point is that a company should offer several options on your Installation. Take i t like a Basic, Medium and Advanced Package. That way they allow you to choose what is best; this eliminates the “Upsell.”

andriywww1990 | 2 years and 8 months ago

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In short, the customers wield a lot more control over pricing and the market than they realize.

i am not being disingenous. 42 years of experience as a helper, skilled laborer, building mangaer, and business owner combined with an education has given me experience and perception that few on this board have.

andriywww1990 | 2 years and 8 months ago

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Randolph, what i am saying is, they would if they could. The competition in the market prevents them from doing this because we know that some other guy who wants the job a little more than we do will cut the price a little or find some way to undercut the other guy. That is why billy is saying get a second quote. Get 3 quotes with something you are less familiar with or when you are not sure of a contractor.

You are correct in that some contractors will say this “i don’t want that job because…. it is too far….there is no parking”….whatever. so they bid high kind of hoping they don’t get it. If they get the job they suffer the bs (i openly tell people i do not want to work in manhattan and will charge a premium to do so and i still don’t want to go there but i am honest enough to admit this and guide them to my competition).

The only way we could overcharge is if all the contractors met and agreed to inflate proposals and who will get what job by going a little lower than the pack. On public works projects this is called bid rigging and when i w as growing up in suffolk county in the 1970s and 80s we heard a lot about it in the news. It is illegal to do in the private sector and with the goverment contracts, i seem to recall the term “racketeering” being used in conjunction with this nonsense. People used to go to jail for it.

randolph | 2 years and 8 months ago

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sorry but to act as if there are not unscrupulous contractors who try to upsell and overcharge is just plain disingenuous.

andriywww1990 | 2 years and 8 months ago

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Randolph, contractors do not have the luxery of thinking that a reasonable price is whatever a customer is willing to pay. I have never thought this way and i have never heard any contractor suggest this. The contractor has to cover costs and legitimate contractors and especially those in licensed trades charge more because will carry more insurance and if they want a highly trained and dedicated crew, which is important in certain fields, they will offer things like medical insurance and retirement. This means most legitimate and professional contractors have the same overhead and cost of labor. If the contractor attempts to charge too much, the competition gets the job.

Customers do not realize how little wiggle room contractors have when writing quotes. This is less likely to happen in your case, but with certain kinds of jobs where the contractor may be less experienced because regulations allow it, customers choose an impossibly low bid and along with it come problems.

randolph | 2 years and 8 months ago

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> @billhays000
> Randolph did you get multiple quotes?
I am getting more, this was the first to come in. The did say it was a one day job.

jimcornell55 | 2 years and 8 months ago

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Randolph did you get multiple quotes? That’s also helpful. Did they say this is a one day job? It seems like 2 days at least.

randolph | 2 years and 8 months ago

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> @Chris Petri
> This is one of those loaded questions
because from the POV of a contractor a resonable price is whatever the client is willing to pay?

as a consumer, if the equipments is costing them $5k and its a one day job, $7k for labor/profit/projected maintenance or repair cost for their 5 year guarantee on the job seems very high.

lkrshacmzcy | 2 years and 8 months ago

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This is one of those loaded questions that is technically impossible to answer…

lkrshacmzcy | 2 years and 8 months ago

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This is one of those loaded questions that is technically impossible to answer…

andriywww1990 | 2 years and 8 months ago

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Randolph, i am on my hand held and copying and pasting links is a pain in the behind.

Hvactrust.com delived a price on the lennox. I think 3900 and change.

I got prices to come up for first co from ferguson supply and johnstone supply in the results but when i click the link it tells us to call or sign in.

We had an account with ferguson in nc years ago. They are a big supplier. I would call them.

I am not qualified to comment on labor cost. Keep in mind labor and overhead and profit on stuff like this includes the responsibility of handling this stuff. Its not all the cost of labor.

randolph | 2 years and 8 months ago

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> @doorsbythetinkerswagon
> Google it. I just found something by first air.
care to share a link? i am not finding anything.

the rest of what you say makes sense re: not buying online. that said, is this $9000 of equipment and $3000 labor? i am still unclear how they are arriving at the price.

andriywww1990 | 2 years and 8 months ago

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I did not realize there was more to this.

Get model nos as billy says. Google it. I just found something by first air.

Now this: the on-line prices are always cheaper than what a contractor will pay at a local supply house. And we cannot expect contractors to purchase things on line because we can get stuck with expense if something arrives damaged or there is an issue with an on line vendor who will not honor a return for some reason.

You can always call supply houses. Most contractors pay retail with the larger volume contractors getting a small discount. Not wholesale but something off on the house account.

randolph | 2 years and 8 months ago

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this tells me that the condenser is $2080 and $4525 installed but hard to tell if that is accurate.

https://www.centralairconditionerprice.com/lennox/

randolph | 2 years and 8 months ago

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> @doorsbythetinkerswagon
> what is the name of the equipment?

Condenser: Lennox EL16XC1-024
Air Handler: First Co 24HBXBHWTXV410

I am having trouble finding a price on these items, it seems that they try to keep it hidden from consumers probably so people don’t know how much they are being marked up. I was told this is a 1 day job, so it seems to me that the equipment would have to make up a sizable portion of the $12,400.