Getting started replacing oil boiler with gas OR heat pumps?

Hi all, we are hoping to replace our oil boiler used for steam heat in our Bedstuy brownstone this summer.

Based on speaking to old school contractors, everyone is recommending converting to gas.

But online research tells me that heat pumps *could* be a viable option.

I’ve gone down the google rabbit hole a few times on this, but there seems to be so much conflicting information out there (and of course, most of the info one way or another is published by people with incentives to push one technology or another)

Can you guys recommend any resources as we just get started on trying to do this upgrade?

jakester

in General Discussion 2 years and 4 months ago

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justinromeu26 | 2 years and 4 months ago

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Randolph, how many actual pump units do yo have and how many air handlers? How many breaker slots did this take?

xuytbjicwnofjdde | 2 years and 4 months ago

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Maybe mini split is the more precise terminology as opposed to ductless. It’s a standard heat pump mini split system with air handlers in each room, but I guess the “hyper heat” technology is what is allowing these to be reliably used by cold weather climates without the need for radiator back-up for even the coldest days

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 4 months ago

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How does it work ductless? How does heat get moved around? How many breaker slots (are they 220) does each one take ? How much are they and can a homeowner with reasonable mechanical/electrical skills do this kind of install?

xuytbjicwnofjdde | 2 years and 4 months ago

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We’ve had some basic dialogue with architects about a (down-the-line) full renovation, and the consensus seems to be that mitsubishi hyper-heat ductless system is the way to go these days. Assuming the performance and cost is even similar, the benefit of freeing up floor space from getting rid of radiators / pipes / boiler would be enough for me to do it…

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 4 months ago

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never mind randolph:

from mitsubishi:

“….If you live in an area with extreme cold-weather conditions – not to worry! Mitsubishi Electric offers heat pump systems with Hyper-Heating INVERTER® (H2i®) technology which can provide up to 100 percent of heating capacity at 5° F and continue operation down to -13° F even without auxiliary heat. Select units equipped with Mitsubishi Electric’s H2i plus™ technology can deliver up to 100 percent heating capacity down to -5° F.”

randolph | 2 years and 4 months ago

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it works like any other forced air system, the smaller rooms heat up faster than the bigger rooms but we have never been unable to keep it at a comfortable temperature even on the coldest days.

i know nothing about other manufacturers, the people we used to install only work with mitsubishi.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 4 months ago

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randolph, are you up there all winter or here most of the winter? how do they work when it is down around 20 degrees F? if you are here in the winter and go back up there for say weekends, how long does it take to heat a house (as compared to our dino steam heat)?

technology wise, how does the mitsubishi compare to the american stuff? I mean do their specs claim to function as a heat pump at lower temperatures than american stuff?

i seem to remember you were going through this and am sorry if i missed you coming on here and saying how this worked out.

randolph | 2 years and 4 months ago

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here we go again……i switched my house upstate from oil to heat pumps. they work great, the house was built in 1850 but has since been upgraded and is fairly well insulated. I have 6 “zones” which really just means each indoor unit has its own outdoor unit and each can be turned on and off as needed. my electric bill has gone up but it is half the cost of what i was paying for oil. not sure how that compares to gas.

https://www.mitsubishicomfort.com/residential

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 4 months ago

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I am as confused as everyone else in this but i will share what i know.

I used heat pumps when i lived in modern (read “well insulated”) student style apartments while in college in wilmington, nc in the latter half of the 1980’s. I always felt cold with them and now know why, they have to be left on all the time as the produce heat slowly, over time. There was something else; the older technology did not really produce heat on its own once it was below 32 degrees Fahrenheit at which time an electric coil kicked in and that cost a lot of money.

Apparently today’s units are a little better. I have not read about american technology (trane, carrier) but someone on here pointed out that units being produced in europe are now being used in nordic countries. So i looked up the technical data on some produced in the UK. They themselves admit that once the temperature drops below 28 degrees Fahrenheit, they start to become less eficient all the way down to 11 degrees Fahrenheit at which point they produce no heat and an alternative heat source must be used. They warn people living in Canada (the uk company exports to them) that they can not rely on these as their sole heat source.

The suggestion i have heard from some on here is if you want a heat pump, keep you old system as back up.

They are installing a lot of gas heating systems in europe that do the same things ours do, not with steam, but hot water. These units are smaller and fit under a kitchen cabinet. My guess is there is not a lot of heavy cast iron in them and the radiators are smaller, thinner, and are set up so they can be isolated from one another (i spoke to someone in europe about this and forget if he said “zoned” heating or by each radiator). Since they are compact. There is probably less water to heat = more efficient. I see them in houses in this country made by Bosch, so they are available here. One of the heating guys on here can speak more to these units.

Read some of the older posts on here about this topic. It seems to be all over the place. I think a lot of people want to move in the right direction but are not sure what to do and some of us sitting on 30 year old boilers know we’ll have to do something sooner than later.

Steve
Brownstone Home Inspection LLC

lkrshacmzcy | 2 years and 4 months ago

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Resources as in to try to compare which option is more efficient or contractors to compare the costs?
If you go Oil to Gas, you definitely need permits and likely additional work. If you go Electric, you may be able to do it without but it also depends on how you produce Domestic Hot Water