General Renovation Costs

Hello, I’m curious if people would like to share any stories and details of recent renovations. Specifically I’m looking for people who have done fairly basic renovations (Not handyman level, more like GC level) to a one bedroom apartment in an older building. I’m bidding out a project soon and would like to gather some additional anecdotal stories from a source such as this, I think it could be very helpful and for that, big thanks in advance for anyone willing to share!!

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in General Discussion 2 years and 10 months ago

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cate | 2 years and 10 months ago

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Tinker is correct, not practical to lift from below, but can reinforce if beam is missing or out of pocket. Tinker is also correct, most likely all you need to do is sister joists and level the floor from above.

andriywww1990 | 2 years and 10 months ago

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You can ONLY fix that situation by removing the floor and either doing whatever to the joists or sub floor. You cannot do anything from below, lifting anything.

Lifting the floor will lift walls in your apt and that will do the same thing to the walls up stairs in other’s apartments and it will work against old repairs and crack plaster around those repairs.

I should not have mentioned that girder thing in my post above. I would still have an engineer check it to be sure it won’t move further. I am looking at that slope near the stair penetration here in my house and if chose to fix just this floor, i would be ripping up the wood floors, leveling a half moon area about 18′ by 18′ and relaying thin subfloor, built up in the worst sections, and then lay new floor. leveling is used to level the edges of the layers of subfloor. New floor would go down, moldings reattached.

Cate’s post made me realize this. A note about cate’s situation. What she decribes is why it is better to do full guts. To piece meal these houses causes other problems. It is exactly why nothing gets done in my house.

Keep in mind, if the building ever decides to lift from below, if will ruin what you did above. So consider that.

If this were my house, i would probably not remove the old sub floor and work the top of the joists. The better way may be to add to the joists, but that is not what i would do. I would read about the two ways of doing this, building up subfloor or adding to joists.

All of this is done by running level strings across the floor, set to the higher surfaces, and building up to the string. Its the same way joists are ferred down when leveling a ceiling for drywall. It is very easy. Its not structural work. It looks and sounds like a lot to a novice.

cate | 2 years and 10 months ago

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OP, that is interesting. We’ve got quite a lot of slope, sag, you name it. The reasons vary (sagging stair headers, missing last beam in rear of house, etc.) We’ve replaced part of the main beam because it had termite damage but I don’t think that had any effect. However, every time we temporarily removed and then put back a load, that caused a ripple effect in the old wood, resulting in a sag. Examples include repairing the foundation in a shed/extension (which somehow affected an adjacent beam on the parlor level) and replacing the siding.

andriywww1990 | 2 years and 10 months ago

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And just so you know, i had a real contractor (i am not structural) look at my situation and he was uncertain. He might have thought there should have been a shim in the stirrup. Not sure. Not sure he knew. And i don’t recall. With nothing certain i knew further action required money and a commitment at my end.

andriywww1990 | 2 years and 10 months ago

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If the footings were not properly done the columns supporting the beam could have settled.

The engineer should try to find out WHY this happen. When we repair things in buildings. I spend a lot of time on the why so we don’t make the same mistake. Sometimes you have to push professionals to give you the answers you want but you also have to know what questions to pose.

8104012 | 2 years and 10 months ago

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Yes, thank you so much for all the great info and help!! It’s been noted that in the 1980s, they replaced the main beam support in the basement with an architect as the original one had been damaged by termites. It was then that the building ‘settled’ further to the state it is currently in. To give context, the wood frame building we are in was likely built around 1875 (from the records we can find). We’ve had structural engineers thru the building and none have said the slope is a concern but confirmed it was likely due to this bean in the cellar being replaced.

andriywww1990 | 2 years and 10 months ago

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In addition to the issues op might have in a common area (i assume the cellar is common) working it from below with a girder creates headroom challenges. That’s why this solution is sort of ellusive for me.

andriywww1990 | 2 years and 10 months ago

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In the event we did something like this in my house, it would involve a girder, columns and footings. But that also means an engineer. There are ways to do some of this from above but when doing that, we are not correcting the problem, but hiding it.

cate | 2 years and 10 months ago

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OP, ideally you would be able to open up the ceiling underneath this unit to take a look and have it inspected by an engineer who is experienced with this type of housing structure. Then they can tell you what is the cause of the slope and the correct way to fix it. However, I don’t know what’s underneath this garden floor unit (cellar common space?) and since this is a co-op, you would need permission since you’re getting into building structure. Another option might be to, as you suggest, remove the flooring in your unit and take a look. This is an approach I am not familiar with so I cannot advise. You could reach out to an engineer and let them know the issue you want addressed and ask them if they can effectively consult looking only at the structure from inside the unit, not below, and see what they say. If the floor slope is the usual wood sag over many years and not reflective of some underlying condition such as termites or joists falling out of pocket, etc., and it’s not that extreme, another option might be to live with it. This will also mean preserving more material that might be original. Then your scope would be to replace the cabinets and sink (you would be well advised to seal the underlying structure and perimeter against vermin when everything is ripped out before covering it up again — and of course make sure the plumbing and electrical are sound), engage experienced painters to prep the walls and paint, and refinish the floors. I’d give a very rough estimate of maybe around $12,000-$15,000 for the latter scope of work (not including structure, mechanicals, or replacing the floors). An engineer might charge $900-$2,000 or so.

andriywww1990 | 2 years and 10 months ago

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Ok, i am not qualified to speak to the slope especially since they lean to the stair penetrations and often involve the stairs. We have that problem in this house. I have spoken to contractors. If i were going to address this in my own house myself i would probably consult with an architect.

A dip in the center is easier.

8104012 | 2 years and 10 months ago

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Thank you Doors! They slope. I’ve been told its a matter of ripping up the existing floor and adding daughter boards on the joists. But the floors, as nice as they are, are old and very worn.

andriywww1990 | 2 years and 10 months ago

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Ok. There are floors that slope and floors that dip in the middle. Which do you have? You can level a dip fairly easily and i will explain it if you describe your situation. If you have a slope, you need a contractor who does this or an architect or both.

irfan | 2 years and 10 months ago

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Leveling the floors is a huge undertaking. Doing that will usually require replacement of all the floors and subfloors and floor molding and cutting or replacing all the doors and cutting all the walls to fit. There can be knock on effects once you start that process. Are you sure your coop will allow it? You’ll definitely need an architect.

8104012 | 2 years and 10 months ago

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So than you for the replies! The apartment is a ground floor railroad in a coop. About 600SqFt. I’m going to replace the cabinets and sink, level and replace the floors in about 66% of the space, repair all the molding along the floors, fix drywall in places its been damaged and paint the entire place. This is the basic SOW. Thanks so much!!

andriywww1990 | 2 years and 10 months ago

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If you respond to cate’s question in some detail, i might be able to help you with things regarding wood trim, wood doors, paints and finishes. Wood floors.

I am not marketing myself here. I have no interest in getting involved in something like this-

cate | 2 years and 10 months ago

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Is the apartment part of a condo or co-op? What is the scope of the renovation?

andriywww1990 | 2 years and 10 months ago

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I am a contractor and i can tell you something very important. Use the biddng process to select a SAFE bid. Not the lowest bid. When i worked in buildings under professional managers, we were never allowed to select the lowest bid. I mean, we could accept one 2 percent below the pack, but when something is 10 or 20 percent below the field of bids, something is wrong with the bid. The contractor could have made a mistake (we are human and the writer of this has a 4 year degree plus grad credits and has not taken ONE finance class). Some contractors bid low and ask for more money later and some are in trouble on another job and need money to keep operating and bid low to get another job to fund the first. Add to it, contractors who may have other issues.

There was a person on here a couple months back. They were in dispair and it sounded like they might lose the house in a renovation because of the renovation. By things they had said, i rightly guessed that the homeowner had chosen the lowest bid. The homeowner answered by saying “it was not much lower, like 20%”. Let me say something to that 20% comment; 20% is a lot of money to most contractors and a lot of other people. If that contractor had been expected to be on a big job for a year and half 20% is a lot. 20 percent can get a lot of people in a lot of trouble – not just in the business side of things, but their personal lives. This industry is very competitive and we do not have the profit margins other industries have so 20% can ruin a job. If a contractor makes a mistake on a quote and gets in trouble on your job, it might be his responsiblity, but it is your problem. There are horror stories on this board about stuff like this-