General contractor needed to pull permit?
Our architect will be filing plans (with help of our expeditor) for an Alt-2. He told us only a general contractor can “pull” the permit. Does anyone know if that is true? My husband wants to act as his own GC (I know there are lots of arguments against, but he has his reasons) and we are trying to figure out how to make that work. Getting licensed sounds tricky – he would need workmans comp insurance, but our insurance agent says he can’t get that if there is no one on payroll. He plans to hire people, of course – mostly companies like heating companies or window companies, but he might also want to hire some individuals for specific jobs. But he does not plan to have people on payroll.
A related question is, does anyone know how to get in touch with anyone at the DOB? Telephone? Email? Thanks!
Guest User | 3 years and 11 months ago
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hkapstein | 3 years and 10 months ago
There are actually companies out there that will just pull a permit for you for x dollars per month. Not sure if that’s legit, but it might be.
Guest User | 3 years and 11 months ago
As an update: we believe we have found a contractor who will allow my husband to play an active role, and I think we will go that route rather than trying to get him licensed as a GC. Many thanks to everyone who helped with this.
hkapstein | 3 years and 11 months ago
To be clear here, I’m saying that if the homeowner pulls a permit as a homeowner this problem would occur. But if the homeowner pulls it with an insurance tracking number like Ithaca is talking about, that would not be a barrier, because she would have workers comp and not require the waiver from the WCB.
hkapstein | 3 years and 11 months ago
I think you’ll find that when you apply for your workers comp waiver for the homeowner permit, you’ll have to check a box that says “Other than the owner, there are no employees, day labor, leased employees, borrowed employees, part-time employees, unpaid volunteers (including family
members) or subcontractors.” Or similar. And if the work appears to require subs, probably DOB can use their discretion to deny the permit.
Why? Because they want to make sure you can’t pull a permit and then go to home depot and pick up a bunch of guys, or hire a subcontractor who does the same and has no workers comp. What would even be the point of regulating HIC contractors if the building owner could just pull a permit and then hire unlicensed subs?
Now regarding disability coverage, you should be able to get that from NYSIF as well, I suspect the same strategy can be used. You’ll also need general liabilty insurance which nysif will not give you. I think you should be able to get that, maybe steve has an insurance broker he can recomend. I’m not sure how they will treat you given the lack of experience in the business, but I’lll bet with a little effort you can get it done.
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 11 months ago
the woman from the Brooklyn DOB office who called me was named Charmagne (like charlemagne without the “le”). perhaps you can use the numbers i posted above to try to reach her. her inbound number was “restricted” so i have no way to reach her back.
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 11 months ago
so, ithaca. thank you for having acknowledged those of us on here who are trying to help. years ago, when i was growing up before the net and limited info in local libraries, guys like me who wanted to do things – usually fixing a car or something, i welded and did other things as a teen – had to go around and ask all sorts of people all sorts of things. NOT All the info was useful but we still had to be appreciative as they listened and if they did not know, they often said “talk to so and so” and we had to acknowledge them. in this day of the internet and fewer face to face meetings, people forget that it is still important to acknowledge others, even if the info was not spot on.
You do not need a sole prop. all the city cares about is that if you hire others, you have the insurance and that the subs are licensed in what they do and you do not touch anything that you are not approved to do. i would read part of what urbandad says about subs having insurance and try to use what he says by GETTING COPIES OF CERTS OF INSURANCE FROM YOUR SUBS and using that t o try to gain leverage at the end of the year audit. But I am guessing how subs will impact that audit, if at all. Maybe if you apply for the exception with the workers comp folks and only hire subs with workers comp, the city will let you have a pass? (in my job in buildings, we could not bring a trade in that could not produce a certificate of workers comp and a cert of liability, it was our job to get these).
I was the one who suggested a Sole Prop (i think) because i know if you have a FEIN, you can obtain certain goods and set up accounts with certain suppliers who do not sell to the general public. if you do a large reno, it might be worth the little bit of trouble (apply for FEIN, 5 minutes, register name as sole prop with sec of state or county clerk, 5 mins, cert of assumed name to bank, open account under the FEIN, 1/2 hour. DO NOT GET A NYS SALES TAX number or you will have to file a sale tax return every march even if you do not sell anything.
so with the disability. be careful here. the disability i was talking about in a reply above may not satisfy the state need for same. talk to the people at NYSIF, they have the disability designed to meet the criteria. if the city requires you to carry the workers comp and disability because you are hiring trades or help, you will need certificates when you apply to GC. talk to Contractor’s Insurance in Mineola.
why not call the NYSIF and if there are things that are not clear when you get off the phone, ask the questions here. and then, take any answers from here and i would call the Contractor’s Insurance in Mineola and they will be able to clarify or fill in the gaps. if you come on here and are still not sure, i and post a question, i can call my agent and if it sounds like they can answer it, i will simply post their name and phone number here.
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 11 months ago
urbandad, why are you commenting about things that have been discussed here that others have stated with certainty that they already know about? do you have tourettes syndrome and have you been stymied by saying things in person due to covid so you have restorted to coming on here? (i am sorry, i do not mean to offend anyone who may have tourettes by implying they would be anything like urbandad who not only cannot control his impulses but also suffers from an inability to read, comprehend, and question what the true meaning of something a city agency is trying to say, ie, “read between the lines”).
Urbandad, part of GCing the job is to allow the homeowner to hire subs: specifically, the homeowner CANNOT do the electric and plumbing work and any demo. those MUST be subbed out. But more than that, if the city allows the Homeowner to GC and they have required insurance and will MAKE them sub the plumbing and electric, who is to stop them from hiring a painter or finish carpenter or any other trade? you miss the point. go back to first grade reading comprehension.
Guest User | 3 years and 11 months ago
I think you are right; we could get workers comp insurance. The next question (if we decide to go this route) is how to get disability insurance. I haven’t looked into that yet. Also, will the DOB let an individual be a GC or would my husband have to set up a sole proprietorship?
hkapstein | 3 years and 11 months ago
I think the issue with the homeowner permit is that the homeowner must physically perform all the work. I don’t think you can hire subs.
I was just talking to someone in the industry about workers comp, and it sounds like would be able to get a policy without employing anyone. When they audit you, they’ll want to check that your subcontractors had workers comp, because if they don’t, they’re employees can claim on your workers comp as a GC, so they’ll adjust the premium to cover that, and they’ll look at your bank statements to see who you paid etc.
So I decided to check out the online form, and it looks like you can simply put zero for the salary and zero for the employees and it will accept it. Although you said it would not, I did not have this issue submitting the form. So there you have it. We were all overthinking this problem. Go ahead and quote your WC policy, and let us know what they come back with.
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 11 months ago
so i got the answer. it seems the NYC DOB Commissioner forwarded my email on to someone in the Brooklyn DOB office and i got a phone call. I could not take notes as i was walking to the hardware store.
A homeowner can apply for a building permit AFTER the Registered Design Pro files the plans. here is the process: Fill out the permit application and with it submit a notarized letter explaining that you are the homeowner and detail what it is you wish to do. You must carry the letter and application with the plan file number to the borough office and submit them in person. the Deputy Borough Commissioner will review them and either approve or will write back and say what it is you can not do.
so this is back to what Jane said earlier that her expediter told her they will not allow a homeowner to GC everything. that is understandable but not knowing what a homeowner can not do themselves, aside from the licensed trades is confusing, especially if you only learn this AFTER you pay to have plans drawn and submitted. so i tried to ask the person this question: so what is it that a Deputy Commissioner might say a homeowner can not do? would you be saying that a homeowner cannot move a load bearing wall or demo structural elements or move windows and doors? She admitted she could not answer that and said the Deputy Commissioner would have to review it and that person would decide.
Guest User | 3 years and 11 months ago
Let us know if Public advocate responds. I never got a response when I contacted then office.
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 11 months ago
i just wrote the public advocate.
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 11 months ago
@carriagehouse: the people on this post are pretty much aware what a GC does and how they interface with the city. The OP wanted to GC the job themselves and some people are saying it cannot be done and the NYC DOB website has on it language that implies a homeowner can pull a permit to GC a job (after the architect has filed). the language includes a HOMEOWNER box on the application form and a statement saying that HOMEOWNERS do not need the required insurance if they are the APPLICANT and if they will be doing the work themselves.
i suspect that sometime within the past decade it was possible for a homeowner to GC a job on their premises and that the City made the change and failed to properly edit their own DOB website and the application form.
since i am a contractor and i already don’t like the city and its inconsistent application of rules, i am forcing the issue, if nothing else than to annoy them (i’ve written the commissioner) and make them look incompetent. i don’t merely want the DOB explaining to me that “a homeowner” cannot GC a job. I want t he DOB or a city official to explain to me why language implying that they can do it exists on the DOB website if they cannot.
i do know someone who went through this over 15 years ago and he only got it pushed through by putting their own rules and policies under their noses. he had choice language himself for the level of competence of the DOB staff.
jane just posted as i was finishing this and i now think she is correct.
jane, if they cannot fix things pertaining to he rules and laws they already have, they should not be making more rules and laws as that tells me they have the resources. it is more laziness and incompetence. i was on the phone with them earlier and when i pointed out the inconsistencies, the person on the other end should have said “uh oh, that does not sound right, i will email my boss about it or tell the comissioner’s office” . but no, no one wants to take the responsibility to either learn more themselves by investigating or do something to enlighten the people at the top. laziness.
Guest User | 3 years and 11 months ago
This used to be possible for a homeowner to GC but seems like it is no longer is. If people are getting confused as to why DOB is not updating the info…It’s because of the same issue that large organizations face. They simply don’t have the resources to track and fix the information everywhere.
patrickburnsjr | 3 years and 11 months ago
In NYC when a G.C. is hired to expedite the work permit procedure pursuant to city fees, he/she charges for his/her time (range 2500-5000) and as aforementioned has the established tracking no. in place w. the DOB, & W.C. & Liability insurance coverage.
Although the specialty contractor hired by the client such as the Staircase To Roof Carpenter, the Iron-Worker etc are overseeing/running a job–note they are also responsible for W.C. & Liability insurance coverage.
Guest User | 3 years and 11 months ago
Thanks to you all . Certainly the DOB could do a better job of communicating with homeowners.
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 11 months ago
i just emailed the DOB commissioner’s office and pointed out the dubious language on the website
i would harass those people at the numbers above until they explain that a homeowner can do it or cannot do it and agree that they should contact their bosses to have the dubious language removed from THEIR webpage.
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 11 months ago
when you begin calling the numbers below, they will tell you you cannot do the work yourself. and i ask why and they say “because”. so i point out the language above – “homeowner” and they give me another number and in most cases no one answers it.
NYC Dept of Buildings: Brooklyn Borough Office
Borough Commissioner: (718) 802-3677 and (718) 802-3676
Borough Director: (718) 802-3635
Customer Service: (718) 802-3675
Certificate of Occupancy: (718) 802-3680
Inspection Units
Construction Development: (718) 802-4035
Construction Enforcement: (718) 802-3685
Electrical Development: (718) 802-4342
Plumbing Development: (718) 802-3723
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 11 months ago
and now this. read carefully:
Step 6: Applicant obtains permit
Applicant submits to the permit clerk the approved folder with a stamp indicating that microfilm has been received, along with the
documents below:
PW2 Form, signed and notarized by contractor. If licensee, seal is required in lieu of notarization
PW3 Form (cost affidavit), signed by contractor and notarized. If licensee, sign and seal
A check for $35.00 (final microfilming fee)
Permit clerk checks for fees due and valid insurance prior to producing the permit
Any fees due, including balances and civil penalties for work without a permit, must be paid prior to permit issuance
Appropriate insurance must be held by all potential permittees unless the permittee is a homeowner who will be performing the work himself on his own home. In that case, a waiver from Worker’s Compensation Board must be submitted.
The permit is generated and the permit clerk enters the permit issuance date in BIS.
The application folder is retained by the permit clerk and sent to the Record Room for filing.