Experiences with Elevator in Brownstone
We are moving to a brownstone which needs significant renovation. However, one of the reasons we are moving from our apartment is that my elderly parents will move in with us. Both have mobility restrictions and will be confined to the first floor unless we put in an elevator. We are not rich–but as we have to do extensive renovations, we are considering an elevator. We wanted to know about the costs from anyone with experience–both installation and annual maintenance (as well as which companies are good and which to avoid) Thank you so much for any advice you can offer, and yes, I know our architect and contractor will have opinions but I like to get a sense myself!
melissa.smith
in General Discussion 2 years and 2 months ago
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Guest User | 2 years and 2 months ago
Ask your architect to look at installing a LULA instead of a traditional elevator. It wouldn’t Allow access to the full height of the building but the machinery takes up far less space and the maintenance and inspection requirements are more limited.
Guest User | 2 years and 2 months ago
Ask your architect to look at installing a LULA instead of a traditional elevator. It wouldn’t Allow access to the full height of the building but the machinery takes up far less space and the maintenance and inspection requirements are more limited.
brokelin | 2 years and 2 months ago
Homeinsp – yeah, I meant net too, not profit – I was thinking about what one would have left after the sale and after related expenses are paid, not the capital gains tax bill, which could be a hefty related expense.
While one would like to have more than $750K when facing retirement, especially in the NYC area where costs of housing and other things are high, my point stands – those with that much, even considering they need to buy a another home with it or pay rent somewhere, are still better off than most Americans are at that point. That doesn’t mean that the money may not last one’s lifetime, as it may not – there’s no way to know how long one will live, or how much medical and care costs might eat up. We don’t have a real safety net for many poor elderly in this country (as we don’t for any other groups that need one), and while social security was never meant to be enough to live on, though many, many people will have only that as income when older, lots with little or no savings, and many without owning their home.
Those concerned with leaving a house to t he next generations are probably already figuring they will have enough to live out their lives on – as one (who is thinking practically about money, though I realize that not everybody does) should be first thinking about having enough to live on for the remainder of their life, before they get to figuring what they will leave to the next generations when they go.
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 2 months ago
for people watching this from the a couple of strata above the working class (and who might not understand it because their own parents were not working class) or those from below it who do not have the means to buy a home, what i am saying above is why it is so easy to for someone to stir the workers and mislead them and even turn them on one another. It is because they are nervous. They know if something goes wrong (an injury), they can very easily lose that one asset that means so much to them and the next generation and guess what – they could end up with nothing. I listen to these people when i go to long island (they are my second cousins) and i can tell you this is exactly why they resent their tax dollars going to social programs that they would not qualify for (until it is too late). People do not lose homes in Europe (those people on long island don’t want to hear about this either because they have been brainwashed into believing europe is bad). In Ireland, you work your ass off all your life and your home is your and your children’s home ; they can l ien it for 5% of the value if a parent ends up in a nursing home and so long as the family remains in it, they cannot touch it. Here you work to get out of poverty (before my grandmother’s brother died in 2005 he told me “‘they’ called us ‘poor'” when we were growing up”) and you can end up back there in 5 minutes.
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 2 months ago
Randolph, i like your last line. Where i come from, my family, were workers. Some were fishermen and farmers. Some have houses. Some do not. Some have not moved with the times and have little more than their houses. My own father worked two jobs my entire childhood to be sure we would do better but from where he came from, it took him those two jobs.
Brokelin, i did not mean 750k profit. This is often the mistake people make about some people who work on LI who have houses. The ‘net on that would be something else and guess what, once you sell that asset and have to move someplace else or if you rent in a city like ny, you really have – or will soon have – nothing. Especially if all you have is social security. If you are moving into a child’s house ok, but not all families want that. Some of these families work for and simply want to have one house to pass along and that can be taken away so easily (people do not lose houses in progressive europe where they have nationalized healthcare)
I read what jeremy said. I know a man who when hell’s kitche n was not the place to be bought two units in a less desireable building on a less desirable st. A long time ago. He himself was not wealthy and did not earn a whole lot of money. His only enjoyment is theater which is why he lived where he did. Time moves on and a developer begins buying buildings and makes an offer on this man’s building and the absent owners were determined to sell.. At this point he had been retired for some years and all he wanted was his home (he told the others “i leave feet first”). The problem was, he had very little income and even with the massive profit, it was very hard for him to find a place to go. The coop boards in other buildings did not want to talk to him. Also, what look like a lot of money became a lot less after uncle sam got his cut.
I am glad you started this randolph.
Shamrock | 2 years and 2 months ago
I installed a commercial lift/platform 10 years ago. It cost $20,000 installed from AlphaCare Supply in Valley Stream. My work was 100% legal. The contractor left the shaft open, literally a hole between floors, and ran the electric. This lift will take a big electric wheelchair and health aide comfortably. The lift itself is bullet proof, the only problem is that the doors operate automatically and have numerous sensors. Service calls are rare, and are not too expensive. The other expense is an annual inspection/certification which costs a little under $2,000. My brother has a DOB filed residential lift and it is exempt from the annual inspection.
Some houses that I looked at have elevators that go from the basement level, to the second floor. These are middle class people. I believe some of them designated the shaft space in the plans as closet space, and after DOB inspections installed the elevator. This would probably avoid the automatic doors which are my only problem, and probably the most expensive part of the process. It is possible that residential lifts are not subject to the automatic door requirement, and if this were the case I’d just file the job with DOB. When I built my house a few years ago the annual inspection was still required for private residential lifts.
randolph | 2 years and 2 months ago
Glad I could spur this conversation, I agree with what everyone is saying about the subjectivity of poor/rich and I think it’s important to stay aware of one’s relative place in the world in both a micro and macro sense. The world is a lot larger than the 5 boroughs and it’s easy to forget this especially for New Yorkers.
Guest User | 2 years and 2 months ago
Rich is probably a subjective term. We are all rich beyond most of the world population’s wildest imaginations. I have also seen numerous people far wealthier than I be priced out of their own co-op in lower Manhattan. They probably didn’t feel rich at the time. Incomes and prices are mind boggling in a lot of ways in this city. The below article is a good example of that. I like the ideas of cost savings chair lift and creative preserving of shaftway space for potential elevator in future without unnecessarily saddling with expense and maintenance/compliance costs now. These are both savvy/thoughtful approaches to take in this expensive city
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-15/new-york-city-prices-make-100-000-salary-feel-like-35-000?leadSource=uverify%20wall
Guest User | 2 years and 2 months ago
I am late with this, but don’t understand why Randolph wrote “lets not pretend this is a normal survival issue. this is 1% stuff.” I didn’t see anyone treating this as a “survival issue”. But to me the desire to avoid aging parents being isolated is a loving act, not the kind of thing I associate with “1% stuff”. This is what many ordinary Americans of limited means, and indeed people throughout the world, do all the time – make a home for aging parents. The elevator is an (admittedly expensive) detail.
brokelin | 2 years and 2 months ago
Feeling rich is subjective – there are always people richer than even the quite very rich. I I would call those who can sell their house for that 750K profit after 30 years well off. Those who have millions of equity in a house are clearly wealthy, even if they don’t feel it – if they needed funds for any purpose, say medical treatment or long-term care, they’d have it available, though they may have to sell their home to unlock it – those without equity don’t have that option. Having one’s assets not liquid, but rather in unexpected real estate appreciation, does not remove those assets from one.
People forget how poor most Americans actually are. Those who feel like they are middle class, meaning those who are not worried about being able to access basic housing, transportation, food, child care and health care when needed, or aren’t worried about being able to pay living expenses in their retirement years, even those who are of the U.S. working class variety of middle class who are in that position, are far better off than the majority of Americans.
That’s b efore even getting to the the various upper levels of “middle class” that many in brownstone Brooklyn are – yes, many are in that category, even though housing and other costs, and the grind one feels working the hours needed in many jobs to get there, can make it hard to feel it on a day to day basis. I find it useful to remember how most people in this country get by, even in periods when my work or finances have felt difficult; others find it useful to complain in the midst of plenty – to each their own coping mechanisms.
Remember, in the U.S., most people claim to be “middle class” – from the financially insecure working poor to those who are in the top 2-5% – on both ends, people have an aversion to calling ourselves anything other than “middle class” – but that doesn’t make it true.
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 2 months ago
Many working class people who spent 30 yrs paying a mortgage off and are now elderly could easily sell a home on long island for say 750 and build and elevator in a child’s house and still have plenty leftover. That would not make them rich.
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 2 years and 2 months ago
“Rich” is subjective. I’m “rich” by virtue of the present value of the house I bought for five figures in 1974, but it sure doesn’t feel like it.
randolph | 2 years and 2 months ago
a little googling tells me that at ages 65 – 74:
Average household retirement savings: $426,070
Median household retirement savings: $164,000
Brownstoner’s own article says the cost of installing an elevator is $200k. Do the math…
I am all for retired parents and their kids splitting the cost of a renovation, but these are rich people things (which i am also totally OK with). just saying lets not pretend this is a normal survival issue. this is 1% stuff.
cate | 2 years and 2 months ago
Many people aging in place in brownstones use stair lifts, as Bob mentions. Especially feasible if most of the run is straight. They are temporary and can be added and removed later as you wish.
cate | 2 years and 2 months ago
Oh Randi: Retired parents splitting some real estate and renovation costs with family so they can be cared for at home.
randolph | 2 years and 2 months ago
> @mjervie
> We are not rich—but as we have to do extensive renovations, we are considering an elevator.
LMAO sorry, but you are rich. anyone doing extensive renovations on a Brooklyn brownstone and even considering installing an elevator is undeniably rich.
chemosphere | 2 years and 2 months ago
Some people do them in back of the house. Check out 120 President st. You can see the shaft on google maps street view. Some people even do them in the front of the house! Check out 181 Hooper St!
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6829476,-74.0021461,3a,37.5y,326.91h,87.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s34O_3TDjZbxdwrq13XzqSA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/place/179+Hooper+St,+Brooklyn,+NY+11211/@40.7046767,-73.957544,3a,75y,315.52h,107.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEqRn4Sz_diqGs-idKnDKMA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m7!3m6!1s0x89c25be70bba73a5:0x4ca5a4f5271a1d8c!8m2!3d40.7047608!4d-73.9577324!10e5!16s%2Fg%2F11c4xqfbwd
Guest User | 2 years and 2 months ago
PS, in my files I have a DOB guide to elevators. If you can’t find it, give your email address and I will send it to you. I think it makes a lot of sense for you to install an elevator.
Guest User | 2 years and 2 months ago
We aren’t putting an elevator in our renovated house yet, but we have prepared a space for one, in case we can no longer use the stairs. If we do get an elevator, it would be pneumatic. In my notes I have “Vision Elevators carries three pneumatic elevator models. The Vision 350 is the most compact – 30 inches in diameter and can support up to 350 pounds. The Vision 450 is 37 inches in diameter, enough for two people (dimensions for the rough opening are larger), The largest one can hold a wheelchair. I believe one is required to have a telephone installed. Somewhere I read that pneumatic elevators require less frequent inspections, but don’t take that as fact. Don’t forget electricity – I think the elevator requires something like 50 amps (again, that should be checked). I can’t vouch for them, because we haven’t actually installed an elevator, but there is more information at
https://glass-elevators.com/eo-space-needed-for-a-vacuum-elevator-in-your-home.p hp. Also I believe that at one point I spoke with a Frank Sacco at 101 Mobility, (516) 962-2765.
Good luck.