Estimate on cellar digout and renovation?
Hello good people, we’re finally ready to start the Big Project – finishing our cellar in our two-family rowhouse in Clinton Hill. Right now it’s completely unfinished and would need to be dug down at least a foot or more, depending on what’s possible.
I also want to heat and waterproof the space to make it as usable as possible – it will be integrated into our owner’s lower duplex.
Two questions:
1. What’s a possible ballpark figure for this project? I’m seeing ranges all over the place.
2. Generally speaking, do people get the construction loan first and then hire the architect/engineer?
Thanks in advance!
moriata
in General Discussion 8 years and 5 months ago
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6 replies
robyim1 | 8 years and 4 months ago
Like everyone else is saying price could be anything based on scope of work. If you’re hiring architect and engineers. If you need to pay for your worried neighbors engineers. How far and do you need to dig determines cost of demo. Size of area. Do you need underpinning? (huge cost) Do you need to pour new footings for new support beams? Insulation? Radiant floor? French drains or some kind of drainage? Exterior waterproofing? Amount of concrete, Polished concrete? Tile? Adding a bathroom is new plumbing and you might need a sewage ejector installed if its a true cellar. Laundry room? Electrical and then come your finishes however nice you want it to be. Other things to consider since you are actually starting with a clean slate are new stairs and new boiler and water heater maybe air conditioning as well.
robyim1 | 8 years and 4 months ago
Like everyone else is saying price could be anything based on scope of work. If you’re hiring architect and engineers. If you need to pay for your worried neighbors engineers. How far and do you need to dig determines cost of demo. Size of area. Do you need underpinning? (huge cost) Do you need to pour new footings for new support beams? Insulation? Radiant floor? French drains or some kind of drainage? Exterior waterproofing? Amount of concrete, Polished concrete? Tile? Adding a bathroom is new plumbing and you might need a sewage ejector installed if its a true cellar. Laundry room? Electrical and then come your finishes however nice you want it to be. Other things to consider since you are actually starting with a clean slate are new stairs and new boiler and water heater maybe air conditioning as well.
anotherposter | 8 years and 4 months ago
We did the ledge around the edge and it’s kind of nice storage. To start, I don’t have numbers–even what I can remember was for a much larger scope of work than just the cellar. We dug out about 70% for a rec space with a ledge (if you find boulders, that’s an extra day’s work for them to bury it lower). The undug portion has a half bath, utilities, and storage space. We put in a new beam and smaller and fewer vertical supports than were there. Our coal hatch has vents built in (it sticks up with vents on the back) for the utility room.
We had an architect, which was key. Aside from the obvious, little things pop up, like “can we get even an extra inch of headspace over the stairs where a support beam goes farther than expected?” that need the architect/engineer folks.
Some of my notes for others doing this.
We did concrete floors which I’m now trying to get polished as the unfinished stuff is harder to keep clean than polished, but I do like the concrete. We didn’t have water before other than some sweat on the back wall. We put in a pump in a pit in case of wa ter. I pour a little water on it every now and then to make sure it’s working.
If I had it to do again, I might make the storage area a little bigger, though we’ve just added furniture to the rec area for extra storage as a less tidy solution. I put a cheap rug in one spot and if it ever does flood, I won’t be too upset about the rug. We painted the rock walls, but I wish we had skipped that on the back wall.
This space tends to stay a lot cooler than the rest of the house but then needs more heat in the winter with our forced air system. Easy to baffle or open/close vents would be very helpful for this.
I might have gone for the dig out to a door or window if we were doing it again, at least in the backyard, or if not that, then something a little easier to access lots of fresh air in our back hatch. The hatch can only be opened from outside and animals can get out (or in I suppose) through it. Then again, maybe this would lead to water down there where as now the bluestone is pitched away from the house to drains.
moriata | 8 years and 4 months ago
Hi there, thanks for the reply. We’re just finishing the cellar (it’s the level below our garden-level floor so definitely below grade) to function as storage and a rec room of sorts, so no kitchen or anything more ambitious than possibly a half-bath. I’ve seen examples of cellars with a ledge running the perimeter to eliminate the need for underpinning, which we’d be game for!
Lurker | 8 years and 4 months ago
This gets asked and answered all the time (it’s tricky to find old articles on B-stoner anymore). As workisfun says there’s a huge range of issues.
You might do best to pay an architect or engineer to do a quick feasibility visit.
If it’s deemed a cellar it gets complicated. Even as a basement there’s lots of regulations to deal with–more than 50% of height must be above grade, you need lots of light, egress issues. And you can’t necessarily drop the floor to compensate as that may make too much of your height below grade.
Price-wise, stating a fixed figure is a fool’s errand with no details but an old rule of thumb was 100k a floor. Others say 2-$300 sq foot for a full gut is a good reference point. You can go less of course, but if you’re using a reputable GC and putting in a kitchen, a full bath, electric and plumbing, digging down and a new floor, waterproofing, insulation, presumably new windows, heating, maybe AC, walls etc, soundproofing, finishes, painting, not to mention loads of design and permit and filing stuff, numbers go high fast.
Based on our expe rience of doing the same job with a hack who was cheap but no end of trouble I’d guess 150-200k all-in to do it right.
workisfun | 8 years and 5 months ago
Yes-the price range is wide because there are many, many variables. How big is the footprint? French drain? Exterior waterproofing? Underpinning? Radiant heat in the new slab? Bathroom? Laundry? New electric? Insulation? Finishes, etc. all of these considerations, and plenty more, vary greatly in method, materials, quality, and therefore cost.